Brian Mc talks about his new solo album Voyage and the efforts that go into creating such an epic pomp rock release. Also check out Brain's excellent Track By Track interview.


Wind It Up was the last album - were you happy with the way that turned out and how about the sales?
Looking back now three years later at that release, I accomplished what I set out to do. The main point at that time was to release some of the rock tunes I'd written on the side while focusing on classical music in the '90's and also to write a few new tunes as well. There are a couple of strong songs on Wind It Up, but they are nowhere near the quality of the writing on Voyage. On the question of sales in 2000, we didn't sell as many as we wanted to, but I think we did alright.

Voyage sees a change of direction there - a more adventurous sound for sure. What were your set goals before setting out on the writing process and then the recording process?
A couple of conscious decisions were made before I started writing the songs for this one. The first was to head back in time to listen again to some earlier influences and take note of the writers, producers, and artists that created so much great music in the 1960's and '70's. So, while these things may or may not seem evident upon first listen, the parallels exist in the music. For example, the first song written for this release was “Out Of Time” - along with the lyrics that look at the subject of someone who wakes up after being out of it for many years, musically the song has 60's melodic themes running through it and a Wurlitzer piano sound that was typical on 70's rock albums. “Where You Are, Where I Am” is another example of this leaning toward reflection, bringing in melodic concepts from Motown writers, The Beatles, Beach Boys, and others. The second conscious decision I made before writing was based on a similar stream of thought that had to do with the subject of time as an integral part of all the song subjects on the album; a theme that runs through almost every song. As I kept this thread going, the songwriting process began to lean toward storytelling, which I think brought in a new perspective and new set of choices to make in the music.
As for some of the other processes, I set out from the start to adapt the music to the vocals at all costs. Because several of the songs tell stories, some of which are very detailed, the form and structure of the music became somewhat more complex to provide the right setting for the lyric content. The production and recording processes, particularly in the instrumentation choices and ways they were recorded had to mirror this form and structure. For example, the track “Legend” has two distinct bridge sections and an extended outro; and “Normandy” has an introductory section over a minute long before it kicks into the main body of the song. In the treatment of these, it became important not just during the writing of the music and parts but also in the recording process as well, to make sure the music set up the lyrics in a way that would draw the listener into and through the song. So, these are some of the things I was thinking about before moving into the recording stage for many of the tracks.

What did you hope to achieve for yourself with this album?
It always centers around making the best of each of the songs. I don't think I've ever had a target or measure for success more important than satisfaction with the results of the tracks themselves and that they each achieve the meaning and purpose of the original ideas. Also, along the way, like every songwriter I've ever worked with or met, I hope that listeners get something back from the music as well – that makes the experience of creating and getting the music out there more rewarding.

I certainly think it's a monster of a record - I compared the sound to Kansas, Styx, Chicago and even ELO and Def Leppard. Do these bands inspire you and are there any others that inspire?
These bands and others have made an impact on me, there's no doubt. When you're fortunate enough to come across music that really moves you, it becomes part of your language whether you admit to it or not. For the Beatles, it was 1950's rock and roll; you know, you can hear that throughout almost all of their writing. In the classical world, in Beethoven's first two symphonies, there were the melodies and structures of Hadyn coursing through the music, no mistake; for Stravinsky it was Rimsky Korsakov, and so on . . . and this is the same in any genre. So, this leads to the thought that for every writer, the influences that shape or affect their musical language become embedded in almost all of their choices and approaches to making music. For me, Led Zeppelin was a mover to me as Jimmy Page would bring exotic orchestral-like parts into their music with his guitar work and the band did this in a more obvious way with their instrumentation choices in songs like "Kashmir." And the progressive rock of Yes and the bands that followed them resonated in a big way with my Classical background. While ELO wasn't a big influence for me, there were songs and orchestral treatments that were very cool and struck me as unique for their time. And the work of Mutt Lange and his work with Def Leppard in the 1980's and also David Foster's work with the band Chicago represented different and unique types of producing, arranging, and writing that to me had roots in both classical and rock genres. Other major influences I would add are some of the Motown artists and writers from the 1960's, the Beatles, Beach Boys, the list goes on and on . . .

You are more or less a one man band! How do you organize yourself to record the album's individual parts and what comes first?
In contrast to the previous albums, making Voyage seemed to require more work along the lines of process – it was more than just coming up with song ideas and then making a decision to record them. On the other albums, for example, I would lay down many rough ideas to tape or disc, then use these ideas as the basis for new songs or construct songs directly from these ideas. But for Voyage, the process was more like writing an orchestral piece. I carried the ideas around and edited sounds and forms in my head for the most part. This incubation period lasted days, sometimes a week or longer, whatever it took to make the song whole and get to the place it needed to be for to give off the "feel” that it was ready.
Some of the songs you hear on Voyage took weeks to get to this place, and only a few came very quickly, like the tracks “Where You Are, Where I Am”, “Out Of Time”, and the title track, “Voyage” which seems to have written itself in less than half an hour. After a song would get to this stage, and I started to think about the best way to go about recording it, here would be the next set of decision points. In some cases I started with a scratch guitar or piano and guide vocal. For the more demanding uptempo tracks, I played the drums to create a guide track or used a click track, usually with modified tempi throughout the song, paying particular attention to transition sections and breaks/bridges until things felt as they did when playing the song through with just a piano or guitar. On the songs where a guitar or piano track were used as a guide and I either played drums or programmed them using samples I recorded previously, I could move quickly to the next steps which were relatively simple because the instrumentation had already been worked out in my head. Bass and keyboards would come next, then rhythm guitars, then backing vocals. When the track was feeling good and about 80% there, I'd record the lead vocals. If the track wasn't there as it should have been, I'd put it aside and move to working on another song.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the vocal performances for each song and it was a quick process to get either the vocal performance I wanted or make a decision to file the song away and come at it another day with a new approach. With the lead vocal track down, more often than not additional instrumentation and solos would be added, depending on the nature of the song. And all of this would be much more difficult without the luxury of having the means to record and not being worried about studio rates and session fees; and the technology gives you a hand here as well - the advent of non-linear editing and mix automation provides the freedom to change things even right up through the late stages of mixing as well as allowing control over the fine points of a mix and arrangement in ways that provide great flexibility in the later recording stages.

You do take your time recording albums - how long did the various parts of this record take to complete?
I recorded over twenty songs this time out, and narrowed those to thirteen for the European release, and fifteen tracks for the release in Japan. I also wrote many other songs and some instrumental pieces during this time period. In addition, there are other things I've done to make a living so far; making music doesn't seem to pay all the bills, no matter how much work I put into it! If I were just to concentrate on making rock albums alone, I might be able to release one every seven or eight months, but as things stand, I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to write and release the albums I've done so far, and I'll continue to write and record as much as I can, as time allows.
To answer the question directly, I'd give a rough estimate of a few days on average to cut the basic tracks for each song, one day per song to cut the lead vocals, a day for each background vocal session. Each additional instrument could take anywhere from a few hours to a day depending on the complexity. And additive instrumentation or additional harmonies might take a day. In between the actual creation of the songs and the recording sessions themselves, I was involved in other projects as well, so I was in and out of working on about twenty or so songs constantly. So, considering the number of tracks recording in a single song on Voyage and the time put into making the song right before getting down to the recording process, you could definitely say I take my time going at it!

You have a few different moods on the album. Was that intentional?
Not intentional, but I like that aspect of this release. After finishing “Wind It Up” in 2000, I had this feeling that had been catching up to me during the recording of that album; a feeling that I was locking myself into constraints that held back the development of lyrics and freer flowing musical ideas. So, letting go of all of that and just writing led to the different moods and experiments with forms and melodies.

I see high-tech pop/rock then a more adventurous progressive element in the last few tracks?
The music is definitely touching that space in some of the songs and the next release will be more along those lines throughout I'm thinking. I was very satisfied with the sound of the instrumental break sections and outros of songs like “Shadows Of Angels” and “Legend” and the instrumentation choices in those and some of the others. That's the ground I'll start to build upon for the follow-up to Voyage – you know, to bring these elements out more than just in the breaks and instrumental sections and incorporate a few more surprises.

How about the addition of strings, brass and bagpipes! How do those instruments get into the plan of the album and are there any logistical problems getting those recorded?
Those instrumentation ideas came along with the first concepts of the songs for almost every track on Voyage. So there was no getting around the fact that I had to go out and get the players to do it. Recording strings is always a challenge, but easier when you have great players willing to experiment with you, on this the Mozart Force ensemble was great. Brass was easier as you can be very flexible; for example, recording many passes of a couple of instruments at a time to get the sound and feel you need for each part, then mixing these later. Recording of the bagpipes for the song "Unfinished Bridges" started with giving Liam McKenzie the parts, then recording them in several passes. As you probably realize, this instrument is a challenge to play, and this degree of difficulty can be compounded when you have someone like me who knows so little about the instrument demanding that certain lines and phrases be played a certain way. So to compensate for my lack of knowledge of the instrument, I rewrote many of the original melodic lines of the bagpipe solo so they could be played, and where I wouldn't compromise, I grabbed a bit of phrase here and there and edited it into the track where I wanted it to go.

Is everything recorded at your home studio?
Everything was done at my place, with the exception of Reb Beach's guitars and a few of the more exotic instruments (harpsichord and bagpipes, for example) Reb has his own studio and his tracks were recorded there.

How much do you think the album would have cost in a hired pro-studio?!
I can't imagine what it would cost, but I know that there no way a record company would pay for that many hours in a major studio! At that point, you might as well build your own place anyway. How's that for a circular argument?

I love the two big ballads - Night You Said Goodbye and between Heaven And Heart. Have you always been a fan of big ballads and where do you draw musical inspiration for these two tracks?
Thanks for that. Influences for writing ballads come from so many places. If I lined them up, I'd say inspiration comes from songs like Paul McCartney's “Yesterday”, which is probably the perfect ballad, to those classic pop ballads of Chicago in the 1970's and '80's. After I wrote “Heaven and Heart”, I thought it might be somewhat of a departure from the usual form, but as for “The Night You Said Goodbye” I had written that tune in the '90's and would consider it typical rock ballad form and changes. It was Magnus Söderkvist (A&R, Atenzia Records) who suggested I re-record that one for this release. It seems to get along with the other songs on the album.

I still think those tracks could be eaten alive at radio - have you thought of trying to get the songs placed in soundtracks? Or is the process of placement and radio play just too complicated/hard these days?
Several years ago, artists would depend on the record label or managers to plug in to these types of opportunities. These days, it takes more to get you there. Without a strong push for radio play in the U.S., it comes down to who you know and the luck of timing. There are a couple of tracks on Voyage that I'm sending out to producers in the chance that one might be the right fit for a particular movie or film project, but as always, being there in the right place at the right time rules the ability to make it happen. As far as Europe and Japan, I'm completely depending on Atenzia and King Records to make it happen as best they can. If the songs are able to make it on to radio playlists, I think there's a good chance for success with this one.

Do you have plans to market the record in the USA?
The last two records have been targeted for the most part at Europe and Japan, and marketing in the U.S. has been secondary. It would be great to get that chance, but as you know, strong sales and radio play in a non-U.S. geography doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the knock on the door to release on a major in the States. The market here is a strange beast right now, and I think a lot of folks are trying to understand the logic behind what's going on. I think for the most part it's become almost completely a reactive industry in the U.S. and as has moved about as far away from developing artists as it can go at this point. But despite the music business side of things, to my ears anyway, along with all of the things I don't like, some great music is being released here. And it would be something to hear Voyage get radio attention in the States, because I think these songs would stand out as something completely different from the current field playing today on rock radio. Until then, for people in the U.S., Voyage will only be available online or as an import in the major music retail shops.

We did a great Track By Track for the album, but aside from those comments, do you have personal favourite tracks from the album?
My favorite songs are “Where You Are, Where I Am” and “In The Shadows Of Angels”. Lyrically these two have some personal meaning, and also, no matter how you sing them or which instruments they are played on, they feel like songs that are easy to understand and relate to as a listener. Also, the ballad “It's Only You I Need”, which is only on the Japan release of Voyage, is one of my favorites as well.

Did you get a buzz to see the debut B.McD LP re-issues on CD last year?
Yeah, that was something. It seems a lot more people than I had originally thought were really into that album when it came out. I got this huge dose of email for many months after the re-release of that album on CD which really surprised me. I know we saw some sales in the U.S. for the original release, but I had no idea of the number of people in Europe that were into it and that still had the LP or tape in their collection years later!

Where do you go from here then Brian? What's first up on your to do list and what else lies in the future?
I'll get back to some instrumental pieces that I've been wanting to get to for awhile, and next month I'll start the new course into writing for the next album. As you mentioned earlier, it takes me a long time to do one of these so I might as well get started. And if the opportunities arise, it will be great to get the band together and play the music from Voyage live.

Would you like the opportunity to play live more, or do you prefer studio work?
I like both recording and playing out; any time you get a chance to play your music for people who want to listen – that means a lot. Whether it's to a single listener, a small group of people, or a concert hall, it's the same feeling. The studio work is also another extension of writing – it's something you do to reach as many people as you can with music, so I'll always be in there recording something. In the balance of things, I'm looking forward to more opportunities to get out there and play having just spent so much time recently in the studio.

What else musically do you get up to between making these great albums?
I write instrumental pieces, play a lot of piano, do some session work, vocals and keyboards primarily, and work on other projects to pay the bills. And this summer, I'm thinking of learning to play the violin. I've always wanted to do that.

And what do you do to relax?
I write and listen to music, believe it or not. Another thing is to spend summer days anywhere near the water, sailing or windsurfing.

What is Brian McDonald listening to in his CD player currently?
I've got a rotation going this week in the multichanger: The Beatles “Abbey Road”, Matchbox 20 “More Than You Think You Are”, Joni Mitchell's “Court And Spark”, and Gabriel Faure's Fantasie for Piano and Orchestra in G major – the Faure CD has been in there now for several months, I can't seem to put it back on the shelf.

Anything else you would like to add Brian?
Just a bit about melodicrock.com – As a listener, I really appreciate your efforts in providing a view into music that would otherwise not be made available or brought forward in the press. It's been a great resource to many people, so thanks.

Too kind Brian, I'm just doing what I love. Thanks for taking the time out to do this interview!!
www.brianmcdonald.com

Who is the insider?
He is a long time site regular who works in Los Angeles for in a high profile position for one of the big four major record labels.
When sent a whole range of questions regarding business practices of the major labels and how different aspects of the record industry work, he was only to happy to spend some time writing some in depth and thought provoking replies.
What is included below may sometimes be controversial to some, but none of it is fabricated. It's how things work.
Naturally the identity of the author cannot be revealed because of fear of reprisal from his employer. While they are one person's take on the scene, his views are an interesting read...

As a record label executive, how do you feel about the Internet?
Unlike most of my peers, I see an untapped potential rather than a threat. Unfortunately, most people at record labels see the internet as a threat to the current business model. In a way, maybe it is. Then again, maybe it's time to shake things up a little.

What most label people don't tell you is how they're the ones making the money. The artists are in all reality short-changed most of the time. While the label and the execs are swimming in cash, the artists often see little in the way of real net dollars on album sales.
The internet is a threat to the current way of doing business. While I personally think the labels should embrace the net and use it in a way that benefits everyone, we have a lot of "old blood" that doesn't like change. We still have guys here who think giving an artist a decent "crib" and a couple of nice cars entitles them to keep the artists' royalties.

You'd be amazed at how little money artists actually see. For every million dollars an artist makes, they see less than a hundred grand of it. That's if they have a good deal, and most deals aren't good -- unless you see things from a label point of view.

In short, labels need to learn to use the net rather than fight it. If the labels don't change the way they approach this, they'll soon find out that the web is bigger than they are.

I also believe that certain songs actually should be available, even by the label itself, for free download. After all, many people bought 8-tracks or vinyl albums only to see the formats change to CD.
They already bought the song, so they should be entitled to a free download. If I bought "Abbey Road" on vinyl for the home, 8-track for the car, cassette for the next car - shouldn't I be allowed to download a copy to put on CD? After all, I already bought the
album three times.

But the labels don't see it that way. As we speak, the next format is already in the works. In another ten or fifteen years we'll be replacing our CD's too! Easy money!

The $64,000 question is - does file sharing hurt sales?
The evidence, the sheer statistics prove otherwise.
However, there is no conclusive evidence either way. The labels have spent a lot of time and money fighting file sharing and actually won that battle in many ways. Yet while
file sharing was at its peak, so were sales. File sharing has dropped substantially, and with it so have sales.
I don't think this is a coincidence.
I believe too many people bought too many albums loaded with one or two quality songs and a bunch of filler material. If that's the kind of album you're releasing, then yes, file sharing will hurt.
But if you're releasing a strong album, then I firmly believe file sharing helps.

The biggest beneficiaries of file sharing are the lesser known acts or indie artists. Any artist without the benefit of a strong label backing or high budget PR campaign certainly has a lot to gain from internet file sharing.
Bottom line is that you could prove that downloading doesn't hurt and the labels would still be against it.
Not many label people are progressive thinking or actually really know the internet very well. Label people assume that every time a download is made or a CDR is burned - a sale is lost. This obviously isn't true, but it's what they believe to be true.

What's the worst culprit – CDR trading, advance copies leaking out or just MP3 downloading?
Actually, the labels tend to be their own worst enemy here. I'll use the Journey "Arrival" album as an example here. Journey fans were told of a release date as far back as the fall of 1999. No album. Spring 2000? It came and went, still no album. Fall 2000? Still not there.
Then the album was released in Japan before a stateside release.
Normally, this isn't a problem. Normally, it's only a one or two week lapse before the U.S.
release. In this case, however, it was several months before the album hit the shelves here in the states. By then, the fans had bought the CD as an import.
It was widely available for download as well. As a result, the album faired poorly in domestic sales. It wouldn't have mattered who fronted the band, Steve Perry or Steve Augeri. It was handled very poorly. It's easy to blame the net for it though.

I believe CDR's may impact sales slightly, but no more than tape recording did years ago. The labels shouldn't gripe about CDR's either, as they get a percentage of all CDR's sold, even if they're being used strictly for data.
Same goes for audio cassettes. Hell, even CD burners are slapped with a $2.00 surcharge that goes right to the RIAA.

Record labels are seemingly going to stupid lengths to stop Net trading. Is any measure going to work?
Simply put - No! Does that stop the labels from trying? No.
There will always be someone to take over where another left off.
The labels killed Napster. Did that solve anything? No. It only made the labels look
mean-spirited and greedy. Now there are several other Napster-like sites out
there and file sharing goes right on along. There will always be legal loopholes and inventive minds. The labels can't stop it. Yet they refuse to embrace it and make a system that benefits everyone.
If you enjoyed almost exclusive power and profited immensely from the labor
and creative powers of others, you wouldn't want to give it up either.

One label - Sony - spent a lot on an CD anti-piracy measure that could be overcome with a .99c marker pen. What did you think about that?
As I said before, there will always be those with creative and inventive minds who will find a way around anything. Hell, some 17 year old kid a few years back found out how to defeat DVD anti-piracy techniques and literally invented the DVD recorder long before any such product existed.
If a 17 year old can take a DVD which is piracy proofed and burn it on a CD, can any label really win this game?

This was an example of how a label will spend a fortune to fight rather than very little money to try to find a win-win situation.
No matter how much time and money you spend trying to stop piracy, it won't be long before someone defeats your attempt at a fraction of the cost and time you put into it.

And just this week - news that advance copies of the Pearl Jam album were sent to press in CD players glued shut! Is this the silliest idea yet?
I ask that, as I have an advance CDR of the album and it didn't come from Sony!
Who thinks of this stuff?!
The thing here is that the labels don't see just how silly they look. If anything, you have a
handful of guys patting each others' backs and talking about how smart they are at their latest anti-piracy attempt.

How does a label get advance press in the future without giving up control of where the music ends up?
Good question. Right now, the trend seems to be on limiting how many promo copies go out and when they go out.
There are some ideas in the works, but I can't really divulge them right now.
The bottom line, however, is that once you release a promo copy, you can't control what happens to it. Unfortunately, some people with promo copies do things they shouldn't, like list the CD on E-Bay or upload MP3 files for everyone to grab.

I am aware of the problems the labels are trying to deal with, but as a webmaster, I have to speak up and say why is the Internet written off as all bad, when sites like mine are genuinely interested in promoting music, but can't get a major label to respond?
Your Kalodner interview shows what the vast majority of people at all labels think of the web. They truly believe there is nothing positive about it. Their view of it is that everyone online wants everything for free. They think people feel they are entitled to music without
paying for it.

Again, it's all about power and money. Label execs are truly feeling threatened by the net. They see the whole system as being vulnerable, and think that change - any change - is bad. The fact is, however, that the web is too big to ignore or win a fight against. Sooner or later, something will give. Oh - and it won't be the internet!

Your comment about wanting to promote music is telling the labels you actually want to share it for free. Ideally, it would be nice to form a mutually beneficial partnership wherein the label gets you a promo CD. You upload files of say 30-45 second long clips of each song. People visit your site, hear the clips, like what they hear, and buy the
CD. Good idea, right?
Well, the labels see even that as getting something for nothing.
I say if the album is good, and you hear the clips, you'll buy it. If it sucks, you deserve to keep your hard earned money.

What the labels don't admit to is that with just about anything you buy, be it food, curtains, clothing, whatever - if you buy it and don't like it, you can return it. But with CD's? Sorry! You bought it, you keep it. Doesn't matter if it sucks. Doesn't matter if that one hit they reeled you in with is the only decent song.

The labels also won't tell you how they prevented low priced CD singles from becoming a reality. We all remember the 99 cent 45 RPM single. Many people would buy 45's instead of LP's until they heard several hits. If the album was crap, but had that one radio friendly single, it would sell poorly even though the single would go gold or platinum. In the CD world, you don't have this option. You plunk down 15 bucks for a CD that cost the label maybe two bucks, and it's yours. No refunds here!

Moving to another issue – radio and airply - the radio industry is now deregulated, yet it is harder than ever to get a new song on the air without substantial financial backing. Can you explain what the whole Payola or Pay For Play concept is and how it works?
The old fashioned version of payola is illegal. Once a few people got busted for it, the idea of payola had to be re-invented.
Instead of the labels handing out cash and gifts to stations, they now have added a go-between to do it more discretely. People like Kalodner are essentially middlemen hired by the label. These guys will pay millions of dollars every year to get songs played on
the radio. The radio stations receive what are called "promotional payments", often getting hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Once the song is in heavy rotation, the label sends the person who made the arrangement a check for his services.

Your local radio disc jockey never picks what he wants to play. That's decided for him. The music industry is a multi-billion dollar goliath. Top 40 stations in nearly every city have self-appointed geniuses watching over everything they play. The stations win
because they get huge payouts. The payola guy wins because the label sends him huge paychecks for a job well done. The listener loses because he hears what someone else wants him to hear.
Ironically, it was the deregulation of the early 90s that paved the way to this new breed of payola. It actually made things much worse.

What kind of sums of money are being exchanged? For minor coverage? For blanket coverage?
Each song on each station is worth a minimum of $1,000.00. Some songs can net up to $10,000.00. That's each song added to each station. Consider there are about 10,000 top 40 pop stations in the U.S. alone.
Each station adds about three songs a week to their playlist. Three songs at say $2,000.00 each over 10,000 stations -- do the math. It adds up to 60 million dollars a week in cash changing hands. That's three billion benjamins a year, my friend!
How would you like Kalodner's job now?

The RIAA is trying to stamp out Internet Radio Stations by making them pay
royalties also. Is this a smart or a stupid move?
Artists deserve their royalties for any public broadcast. However, internet stations are still a new and not yet profitable industry that is still in its infancy. I think a good, fair, comprehensive plan needs to be put in place that will serve everyone's best interests.

I think a grace period of a few years to see where things are going is the best course of action. The RIAA is there to serve the interests of the labels though, and like the labels, they haven't shown a lot of good judgment when it comes to the internet.

Just this week I sent a DJ (who is a site regular) a request to play a few new tunes if I sent them to him...
His reply was this:
“I would've said "Hell Yeah!" about five years ago, but the corporate powers
that be just cut our playlist by 200 songs...Now the idea is to squeeze out our competition, since we also own the oldies station in town, who is updating their playlist. This is supposed to make it harder for the crosstown rival to hang on to their share of the market. Nice idea, but in the meantime, the listeners who like that kind of narrow
programming are the only ones who are listening.”

What do you make of that?!!
That's how the radio business is nowadays, my friend. I think I explained it all.

How about promoting these releases. Can you explain what decisions are made at high levels as far as what artists will be supported and why?
It's not art the label wants, it's your ability to sell albums and make money. Those who have that right blend of looks and willingness to do whatever it takes are the chosen few. Play the game right and you're on the "A" list.

A recent example is the excellent but ignored Def Leppard album, Vs the ok, but media overkilled Bon Jovi album!
Who's the prettier band?

In all seriousness, I think Lep hurt themselves by trying to be more contemporary and not being true to their true selves. "X" is like "Slang". It's not what Lep is all about. Young people aren't interested in an old classic rock band trying to be "hip". That's not
to say it's a bad album. It isn't. It just isn't the kind of album the traditional Lep fan wants, and the younger crowd isn't interested either.
Bon Jovi is doing the right things at the right time, and the label is helping them make it happen. It's just the nature of the beast, Andrew.

How much money goes into promotion of a big album?
Millions. Millions of dollars.

Where does that money go?
Payola. Videos. Promotional items. The band. In that order!

How much is legitimate expenses and how much of it is payoff's or favors?
It all depends on how you define "legitimate". How do define "payoffs"? To the industry, the current system of payola is perfectly legitimate. I gave you the numbers earlier. I'll let you decide.

Manipulating the media seems a fine art – with special appearances on certain programs etc. How much work goes into making that happen?
You do what will get you more album sales.
It doesn't matter if it's Britney stripping at the MTV video awards, or Aerosmith working with producers they hate on songs they hate, or Rob Thomas dieting and working out so he can look good at some appearance on some show, or any of a number of artists doing early morning radio promotions when they'd rather be sleeping.
You do what is expected of you to sell just a few more albums. Keep in mind that 99% of what you see is planned in advance. The offbeat antics of Eminem is all a planned thing to generate sales.

Moving on again…As far as the recording of some of these actual releases go…How about the practice of having bands/artists substituted in the studio
with professional session guys?
This happens a lot more than people think.
Sometimes it's to get that "one perfect" take. Other times your guitarist is too drunk or a no-show.
Sometimes, your guitarist just can't seem to do what you want. Can you say Creed? Nickleback? Can't do that guitar part? We'll bring someone in who can.
This revelation will probably piss a few people off, Andrew! I can hear and smell the shit hitting the fan already!
Most of these appearances by others go uncredited. You think Creed wants to admit they brought someone in to do leads?
Some bands have entire albums packed with work done by other drummers, bassists, guitarists, whoever and whatever. It's so common in the business that it's really not a big deal.
Most fans have no clue that this happens though.

I have heard examples where the entire band have been replaced for the all important debut album. Is this correct? Have you heard of such instances?
Like I said, it happens a lot more than people think.
Yes, I have heard of this and am fully aware that it happens a lot. Artists tend to have a lot more control after the first album. Pink, a pop star all over the radio today, is a prime example of this. They dictated everything on her debut. She was able to have far more control on her latest album.

How often is a good looking artist being sold to the millions actually not behind the bulk of the music they are fronting?
When it comes to song writing, it's quite common. In fact, the labels usually decide what songs will be recorded, who will write them, and what the songs will sound like.
A pretty face and nice body can sell a lot of albums. Can you say J Lo? This woman knows nothing about music, yet she has a pretty face and a decent voice and an ass that gets a lot of attention.
What does she need to know? A pretty face and nice body is more important than real talent in today's pop music world. Let's not forget that of the over 12 billion dollars a year the industry makes, the bulk of it is from the top 40 pop market.

What are your thoughts on record labels not supporting artists for any period of time as they used to?
The whole business has changed. The way things are done has changed dramatically since the 1970's. These days, it's all about the benjamins, my friend. It used to be the old saying "here today, gone tomorrow" for most pop stars. Now it's like "here today, gone later today".

Labels today want an immediate return. Outside of Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Gwen Stefani and Moby, practically no one is in the 30's or older. Youth is more important now than it's ever been. Therefore, you don't have the years you used to have to develop an artist. Today's kids want people in their 20's, if not their teens. How good can you look on MTV?

Why not try and work a band as it used to be, with maybe the band breaking through on their 2nd or 3rd album, rather than going for instant payoffs these days?
Welcome to the MTV generation. You need to be young and good looking. Also, labels want a return on investment right away. Money talks.

As you know, I recently interviewed John Kalodner, who said Sony were not interested in working bands that were only going to sell 100,000 units of a release. Isn't that a fair and reasonable number of units sold though?
Not for a major label. That may be fine on the small labels, but for a biggie you better at least go gold. You better at least make some money for the label. Major labels are interested in putting out CD's that will sell millions of copies.
The result is inevitably a focus on the artists who the label believes is capable of producing multi-platinum discs. That overwhelming desire to sell millions of records
and get a big return on their investment makes the label unwilling to produce a second album for an artist whose debut album yielded disappointing sales.

I read a great book recently - It basically blows the lid on some industry
practices. One comment was interesting - it said having a major label record deal was like having a Credit Card with 500% interest. Thoughts?
Every single penny of the money spent recording an album, making a video, whatever - is money that the label has loaned, not given, to the artist. If you got an advance of a half million bucks, which by today's standards is rather paltry, your album has to go gold just to hit the break even mark.
Today's advances are upwards of two million dollars. Even with a good contract you need to go double platinum to break even.
Most artists use only a part of that money on the actual business itself. Most take a big chunk of that cash and buy a few fancy cars, live in a big fancy house in Beverly Hills, and show themselves off on MTV Cribs.
While they're showing off all this stuff, they are in all actuality not only broke, but owe the label big money unless and until the album sells enough to repay the advance. If the advance isn't recovered, they lose those cars, the big house, and never see any
royalties.
They look cool on MTV Cribs, but a few years later most of them are working in manual labor jobs making minimum wage, and the label is taking every single penny in royalties. It's not like they have any real marketable skills.
Keep in mind that industry is in the business of making money and lots of it. The welfare of the artists is never a concern.

A store sells a CD for $X. Where does the money go - how is it broken up?
On average, the label makes about $6.50 for each CD.
Of that, about a dollar goes to the artist. A couple of bucks goes to the manufacturing and distribution process, a part of which the label often takes from the artist.
The rest is for the label. A platinum album will net the label roughly two and a half million bucks. That doesn't include the money made by the distributors, who are generally owned by the labels anyway. The artist will make around 700k before expenses get deducted on a platinum album.
Most albums never go platinum though. Also, there's that little footnote to add here -- the advance. On a million dollar advance, with a platinum album, you still owe the label about 300 thousand bucks. On an advance of a couple of mil, with an album that hits
platinum you're still 1.3 million bucks in debt!
Record stores' earnings are substantial. They earn everything over the wholesale price, and can at any time return product that doesn't sell. They also get a little extra to put up big displays to feature an artist.
Everyone makes a lot of money except the artist himself!

How important is a publishing deal in the scheme of how an artist signs a
contract?
When it comes to income and livelihood, it's the single most important thing in an artist's life.
Publishing is the money you receive for writing the song. Publishing money comes from the copyright of the song itself, i.e. the words and the music, not from the actual recorded version of the song. The song writers own this copyright and receive publishing
money from that ownership. The owner of the songs is entitled to some exclusive rights. Only the copyright owner can do things with his song, unless people pay him or her to use it. Think of television commercials as the big example here. When people are willing to pay the copyright owner, the owner will grant a license for someone to use that song.
Publishing is also how artists receive airplay royalties. No one can play your song publicly (as in radio) without you granting them a license. Every time your music is played on the radio, you are entitled to performance license money. Unfortunately, many artists sign these rights away.
Other forms of income from publishing rights include print licenses and mechanical rights. All boring stuff for the purposes of this interview.

How vital is a good record producer / engineer and what do they cost an
artist to have involved?
A well known producer can command almost whatever he wants.
Let's say you're in "Our Kickass Band". You try to get Mutt Lange to produce your album. You see he wants 100 thousand bucks upfront and and six points. Too rich for your blood. Let's try Bruce Fairbairn. He's available for $30k plus three points [at least he was available…RIP].
You keep looking and find someone else. He only wants three points. In other words, you're giving up a percentage of your money on all future sales of the album to the
producer.
A good producer is vital. Bands also should work with producers who share their vision of what the album is to sound like. Ultimately, it's the producer, not the band, that makes the album sound like it does.

I see time an time again and artist who moves on from a record label but doesn't hold the rights to the music they recorded for that label. What follows is countless compilations by that original label that the artist has no control over. How and why does this work?
When a band records a song in the studio, there are two copyrights involved. One is for the words and music of the song. The other is for the recorded version of the song. If a song is recorded a second time, the copyright in the words and music don't change, but you would have a new copyright in the actual recorded song.

Whoever pays for the studio time owns the copyright for the sound recording. Keep in mind that artists use the advance money, a loan, the label's money, to pay for studio time. Therefore, the label owns the copyright to the recorded version of the song.
The songwriters still own the copyright to the words and music, but the label owns the recording. This is why the label can put your song on compilation albums whether you like it or not. Bear in mind, however, that the writers of the song are entitled to
royalties.

What's the worst deal you have ever seen?
Robbie Williams. You'd have to know the European pop music scene to know just how bad this deal was. Mariah Carey is a close second though.

What is the most outright corrupt transaction you have witnessed?
Not a transaction per se, but a major label head ordered a manufacturing hold on a #1 hit single for one artist, which had held his then partner's single at #2. The result was that song becoming an artificial #1 hit because the original #1 track slipped in sales and
a little down the charts.

How rigged are the Top 50/100/200 charts?
Until the early 90s, they were very well rigged. Not by any single entity in particular, but a
combination of them. New measures put into place have made the charts far more accurate in representing what the chart positions should be. Really though, they are
just manipulated in a new way. Can you say payola?

How are they set up?
These days, Billboard relies mainly on Sound Scan data. They also use radio airplay to chart the songs not actually released as "singles". It's mainly sales and airplay for the singles chart and Sound Scan sales for the album chart.

How about distribution deals. Getting the CDs into stores etc? What's involved generally?
The major labels control more than 3/4ths of all commercially released recordings. Distribution is handled by major distributors who are wholesalers that take the records manufactured by the labels and coordinate getting them into retail stores.
The distributors are generally affiliates of the labels themselves. Ultimately, the retail outlet will only accept what they think they can sell though. The majors have a huge advantage here because they can manufacture and distribute a lot of CD's in a short
amount of time.

What kind of "things" go on to get a chain store to support a title? Wine and dine the buyers for that chain? Any kind of deals?
Pre-release hype is very important. As I said before, stores only take what they think they can sell. A little extra cash for setting up a big cardboard display is always a good incentive. A little cash for putting this CD in a prominent location also helps. There are a ton of little tricks.

So with all of the above in mind, do you have any tips for new artists out
there?
The first thing a band should do is get a business license. This makes it formal that you are doing business using the name "Our Kickass Band". You will need to fill out an application and pay a fee. Legal requirements vary in different places. Find out what
your locale requires.
After that, it's a good idea to get a tax identification number. I'm speaking here of the U.S. legal method. The band will need to file an IRS from SS-4. You can get this form in the U.S. by calling 1-800-829-3676.
Then get a lawyer on retainer and insure your personal property. Do everything in writing and trust no one.

What is the best way a band starting up today can break into the industry
without a lot of money? Can it be done?
Less than 1/10th of 1% of all bands get that nice label deal. You'll need to shop your tape around. If someone offers to shop your tape for you, be very cautious. This is where a lawyer's advice is important. In short, pay no money upfront and allow no more than 10% of future royalties as compensation IF that person lands you a deal.
Never, ever allow anyone exclusive rights to shop your demo. Lastly, do everything in writing!

And THANKS again for the commitment to do this. Very much appreciated.
You're welcome.

xx

Jeff Scott Soto has a resume a mile long and a career that's larger than life. But with over 15 years of rocking hard behind him, Prism is only his second solo album. Read why now is the time Jeff has decided to concentrate on himself.
E-Mail interviews are normally kept for that section, but I've spoken to Jeff on many occasions and this interview is more than detailed enough to call it a full feature interview.

Ok Jeff, let's start with the new album! Prism adheres to a more melodic 80's rock sound - something that you lived on in the early part of your career. Was it your intention to go back to that sound?
In a way yes, & in a way no. I never usually have much 'intention' with
anything I do until I'm doing it.
Mostly what u get at the end is by chance or experimentation, even in the most commercial pretense. Some of the songs were written years ago during my run with certain bands or projects so you'll hear obvious comparisons, maybe even be able 2 tell when the tune was written. But overall, this album showcases my voice more than the
experimentation of myself I've done on previous recordings.
I wanted 2 do an album that gave u strong songs as well as vehicles 4 me 2 blow my pipes out without battling the spotlight with the guitarists' riffs.....or bassists' 4
that matter!

It's hard to believe - that for so many years singing - this is only your second solo album!
I've never really had much of a reason....or time, 2 do more than this. I finally feel with every piece of music I've already left behind, the small fan base I've acquired know what I'm capable of & the time is right 2 give it 2 them.
This solo album is more a vehicle 4 me 2 truly branch out & spread my wings alone as I'm curious 2 see if I'd be accepted on MY terms. If it fails, I have only me 2 blame.

You have a great band working with you – Alex, Gary and Howie...how did you hook up with the guys?
I've known Gary Schutt 4 years & have respected his talent so much that when he was told the only way his debut album would be released back in '94 is if I sang on it, I didn't think twice about helping unleash this ridiculously talented man into the music world.
I'm sure he would have eventually done it on his own, but I know 1st hand (& still deal with it 2 this day!) the trials & tribulations of getting heard out there.
His guitar playing is so phenomenal, I'm embarrassed asking him 2 play bass in my band, but there are 2 reasons 4 that as well. Gary is not 1 of the neo-metal noodlers that came from the 'Yngwie school of shred' so he's not very comfortable having 2 recreate that kind of playing live & 2nd, I need a bass player who thinks like a guitar player 2 get us through some of that early Yngwie stuff & most of the Talisman material, which brings me 2 Howie Simon.
I've known Howie 4 about 10 years now, but never really knew how good he was until he picked up a guitar last year at my annual Christmas party I throw & as intoxicated as he was (which is most of the time!), made my jaw drop at how good he was.
It's amazing how u can know someone so long & not know what they're capable of.
I asked him originally play a solo or 2 on Prism but somewhere along the way, he ended up doing quite a bit on it. Also, I felt sorry 4 him & asked him 2 join my band full time!
Alex Papa I met & know through the Boogie Knights organisation, which he plays drums 4 in 1 of the disco bands we have in Florida with Gary.
It was only by chance that I did a few stand in gigs with them that not only did I bond with whom eventually became like a brother 2 me, but someone I also felt was 2 talented 2 be stuck donning a wig & playing 'I Will Survive' 4ever.
His enthusiasm 2 play in any situation of mine I threw at him made him an obvious choice over the many drummers I knew or could choose from 2 don the stool...that sounds wrong, doesn't it?

How long did the writing process take for this album?
1st, I went into my archives of songs I always loved but for 1 reason or another, were never recorded properly or released.
I've written some songs that were very close & personal 2 me that I hoped someday I would get the chance 2 resurrect. 'Eyes Of Love' & 'How Long' were the last songs written on it & both were written within 15 minutes of each other....taking approximately 15 minutes each 2 write. I didn't think 2 much on it, I just let it flow & the vibe of what kind of album I was making fell into itself.

Did the style come naturally - is this what you were aiming for?
Like I said, I didn't plan it 4 the 1st time ever, it came about on it's own.
It's not the ultimate JSS album, I don't think I'd ever be able 2 get away that 1 because it would sound like a hybrid of Prince/Queen/Terence Trent D'arby/Linkin Park which I think I would only sell 2 copies of!
I am very happy overall with the commercial appeal it has & hopefully will showcase me more as a more rounded singer/ songwriter than a hard rock/heavy metal figure.

It's a very melodic album - a rock ballad vibe if you like. How do you compare singing and performing this type of rock, as opposed to heavier Talisman style material?
It's harder & more demanding 2 control the voice in this environment.
In the past, u'll get 1 or 2 slower numbers on an album while the others rip your head off. This time I turned the pages a bit allowing the listener 2 enjoy the best of both worlds. I'm all about challenges & quite frankly, I'd get just as bored doing the same ol' same-ol' even if each album sold 10 million copies. If u want the heavier Talisman or Axel style, u can already hear me doing that on those albums.

Production duties - Produced and Arranged by one Jeff Scott Soto. Do you enjoy the pressure of having to perform and produce at the same time?
Absolutely!!!
I love the pressure, challenge & rush of that responsibility.
I've learned so much from my past experiences, it's a natural progressions 2 hold down the fort every once in a while. I'm far from a control freak, but it does feel good 2 be able 2 get what u want on a song or performance the way u hear it in your head. I know & worked with amazing talents on this album & I hail them all 4 their contributions. Ah, who am I kidding (sound of whip cracking) 'back 2 work peasants!!'.

The album has a very even mix and lots of layers - are you happy
with the result?
Yes, Yes, Yes!!! I think once I come down from the hype of the release, the nausea of having heard so many times from it's inception 2 mix, the touring & focus of it all, it'll be an able in years 2 come I'll look back at as a trophy of pride, regardless of how many copies it sells.

I love the extra harmony vocals - they seem to be everywhere. It gives the album even more hooks to hold on to. Did the other guys contribute there, or is it layers of your vocals?
It's all me except 'I Wanna Take You Higher' which I had Howie throw in some vocals 4 that huge textured crowd vocal the way I used 2 do on so many albums in the past. He paid me 2 be on that 1 so he could tell his friends he sings
on the same track Glenn Hughes sings on!
I don't overdo it anymore with the stacking & layering of vox as I think it could sound 2 dated. Actually, on most recent recordings, including this 1 (with exception 2 a few tracks), I only layer each harmony twice, 2 takes of each note panned left & right, when I do my backgrounds nowadays. I've found a way 2 make my voice emulate tons of vocal overdubs when all you're really hearing are 6....kinda cool.

How'd you hook up with Glenn Hughes? That track suits you both and although
different in style, fits the album well.
We are both respectively, soul singers wearing rock suits! What else could I say about Glenn that already hasn't been said in this man's talent?
He's the Voice Of Rock 4 Christ's sake, & I get 2 share the mic with him. We'd spoken
about collaborating 4 years & since he hasn't asked me 2 sing on 1 of his albums yet, I had 2 bring him in on mine. I couldn't, let me rephrase, wouldn't have done this song without him....the whole idea of covering this Sly Stone classic was based on Glenn's availability & interest 2 do it with me, end of story. I'm over the moon on how cool it came out, even though I'm outshined on my own solo album by the master himself!

Special mention - I love the almost accappela track 'By Your Side'! Great job...
Thanks, it's 1 I can sing at a campfire or subway.......er, let's hope it doesn't come 2 the latter anytime soon!

Did you pick 'Holding On' as the single? Tough choice?
No, I have a completely different view as 2 where the singles lie, but hell, Frontiers didn't meddle in my creation of the album, so they gotta have some say as 2 what they choose 2 gamble on since they're fronting the bill!
Actually, I'm so close 2 everything on this album, they could pick the most unlikely song 4 a single & I would say 'fine'....that's 1 responsibility I freely hand over 2 them.

The EP is great value - when did you re-do the Journey cover? Your live acoustic version has always been so popular.
Funny enough, the live version was originally supposed 2 be the version re-released, but since I screwed up the lyric in the 1st verse, I insisted if it were 2 be released, I'd redo it the right way!
As well, the guitars were a bit out of tune & there was never a studio recording of it we could fix or remix...that was a live 2 stereo mix. It was the last song recorded 4 the album after the idea was thrown at me about releasing it. The production, my performance & singing the right lyrics made me happy I did it.

And the 2 live tracks - a taste of what's to come?!! How's the mixing for the CD and DVD live release coming along?
This is almost more exciting than the Prism release because it shows the
other side of me going out alone, yet chronicling so many aspects of my past.
The Gods experience was more than the honor of sharing the stage with some of my respective colleagues, but it made me realise just how many people knew who I was! I've always been hesitant in going at it alone, but this 1 show injected a fire in me that makes it all the more exciting now.
The CD audio is mixed, I'm just waiting 2 get the video portion discussed on how we will author it. I'm also hoping 2 release the high quality versions of the videos available on the Prism CD & Holding On EP as well as bonus backstage footage.
I'm all about giving more bang 4 your buck!

And right now you are flying home from mixing the Talisman album!! How's that sounding?
Yes, I'm doing this interview on the plane. It's cliché 2 say 'it's the best shit ever, dude' or 'it's gonna rock your socks off, man' but what else am I gonna say? In some respects, it's classic Talisman, in others, it delivers the diversity & versatility many fans have come 2 expect, but more importantly, this time around ladies & gentlemen, NO COVERS!!!

What can we expect from it compared to past Talisman releases?
I think it's very well rounded instead of the scattered messes that have occurred the past 2 releases. Having Frederik Akesson back on guitar has made us closer than ever, as we already have history 2gether, but overall, u can hear the 'band' is back in full swing again. We did the new album at a studio in a small Italian wine village called Acqui Terme, which gave us the space & elbow room 2 concentrate on recording, but more so capturing the renewed bond between brothers. Some very funny memories were made on this trip.

You are a hard working bloke - it's great to see you working on a solo name
though.
With your first solo record - the very funky and Prince like Love Parade - why the choice to be as diverse as it was?
Love Parade was more so a cry 4 escapism...escapism from my past as a 'metal singer'. I hate that more than anything, especially when it comes 2 the media because the 'label' is so stereotypical. I've never wanted 2 be categorized as a singer, but how can 1 not be having their 1st major gig be that of with Yngwie Malmsteen? U don't sing 'I'm A Viking' & expect the same crowds as NSYNC!
In the same Glenn Hughes has always tried 2 inch his soul roots on his fans &/or others who didn't know of his past, I tried 2 do the same with releasing the funkier side of JSS.
Needless 2 say, it wasn't a commercial reinvention, but it made me happy at the time. I'm sure a lot of people were disappointed I took that route in doing a 'solo' album, but on the same token, I've met quite a few people who love that 1 as much as I do.
It ain't 4 everyone but it was a postcard of my life I captured the way I wanted.
My favourite albums of all time are from artists who took risks & made music from their hearts, not their wallets.

You can basically sing anything - metal, funk, AOR - what's closest to your heart?
Your guess is as good as mine...depends on what mood I'm in.

Tell us about the Boogie Knights project - you were telling me that working so hard on that really strained your voice....
In the 5 years I was with those guys, I sang on average, 4 nights a week, 3 45 minute sets a night with only 2 weeks off a year....u show me someone who can endure that without straining their voice, I'd love 2 meet him/her.
Most singers, even the huge artists, tour anywhere from 3 -12 months, but with weeks off in between tour legs....this was like 1 long, 5 year tour.
I joined these guys just after we put Talisman on ice in '96 just 2 pass the time away & have some fun.
We ended up becoming so popular at what we were doing & earning some serious dough, it was hard 2 leave after all the commitments & contracts ahead of us.
We were doing movies, MTV appearances, private high profile events, etc., that we were almost considered as bona fide as the bigger bands out there.
But I knew if I didn't want my career 2 end as a disco singer at a Vegas lounge, I had 2 get back 2 business.

You have sung on a whole range of Tribute Albums (Van Halen, Aerosmith, Queen). Speaking to you it is clear that it's for the love of it - paying tribute to the artist, rather than for any possible payment. What tribute track has been your favourite?
It's a toss-up between the Van Halen & Queen tributes.
Queen are closer 2 my heart in reference 2 influence, Van Halen were my ultimate fun, party band. 4 the Queen 1, I sang the song as a tribute 2 1 of my favourite singers.
With the Van Halen 1, I just had fun & pretended I was at a keg party doing my best David Lee Roth impersonation 4 all my buddies...great fun!

Jeff, there is also a killer CDR floating around (I have one here) that compiles a lot of your cover tunes - any thought of ever doing an all covers album?
With enough covers floating around that I've already done, there's no need...just take 'em all & compile 'em on a cd-r....there's your compilation.

I made the remark once that an all acoustic covers album would be a great
listen!
Yes, u did....maybe 1 day.

There has also been several rumors of your involvement somehow with Van Halen or Eddie VH. Have you ever been approached by anyone in the Van Halen camp?
I love rumours, so cool, u get put in situations u only dream of...I WISH Eddie had approached me! The 2 bands I would reel in fronting would be Van Halen & Queen. I've never even met Eddie b4 so unfortunately I don't even have a story here. Would love 2 know where it started though, I'd shake his
hand 4 the publicity I got off that 1.

Yngwie or Axel Rudi Pell? How do you compare both looking back now?
NO comparisons. Both terrible musicians!!!!
Kidding!!!
As guitarists, 2 completely different worlds....as human beings, 2 completely different worlds. Still great friends & I hope 2 keep it that way as long as we're around.

The Humanimal project was an awesome album - no chance of it being repeated?
Not at the moment. As I've said in the past, Humanimal was a project started Pontus & Marcel which later involved me. There was a slight falling out between those 2 that I backed away from, but being that Talisman is back on the map, I can't foresee doing a flood of albums like back in the mid 90's where there was a JSS product coming out every few months.
I have 2 be smart about what I'm doing from now on if I want my plan of world domination 2 follow through.

How about your other projects over the years - Takara and Human Clay?
Favourite moments from those albums?
There weren't really 'moments' involved with those recordings, it was pretty much work as usual. Human Clay was never really a band, just an outlet 4 Marcel & I 2 keep working 2gether until we appraised what was next.
Takara was an ongoing commitment without the commitment. I felt as much as my involvement with them helped, it also hindered because they didn't have a committed front man....hopefully the guy they have won't be 'committed anytime soon.

There seems no chance that I could ask questions of your whole resume, but here's a couple anyway! Biker Mice From Mars - how did you get hooked into that project?!!
I was hired by the producer of 2 sing a couple of the songs 4 this new cartoon that was 2 rival the whole Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle thing going on at the time.
It was supposed 2 be a huge push & from what I remember, Vince Neil, Billy Idol & others were supposed 2 appear on the album as well.
I guess somewhere along the way, the campaign got scaled down, but since I'd already done the few songs I was hired 4 & the producer loved my work, they brought me in 2 finish up the rest of the soundtrack.
I remember my son was only 5 or 6 & loved the free BMFM toys & video games he got, but unfortunately the cartoon never took off. I personally liked it.

Skrapp Mettle - again, how did that project start and was it always only going to be a one-off album?
I met the producer of that just after I did some publishing demos 4 Vinnie Vincent.
I was strapped 4 cash at the time & when he offered 2 pay me 4 some 'off colour' songs he was working on, I took it without knowing what I was getting into. At 1st, I was concerned about the content & was promised my identity would be concealed under a tight lid....great promise!
But it was a blast doing it, great guys/musicians involved...it was all tongue in cheek, not 2 be taken seriously or 2 offend anyone, which I'm sure it did somewhere
along the way.

And Eyes - killer debut album on a major label - what went wrong? It should have been huge!!
Tell me about it.
We put our heart & soul into that stuff, but we threw the dice by signing with the only label who didn't turn us down...a country/western label who wanted 2 expand into pop, rap & heavy rock.
What a catastrophe! They spent shitloads of money the wrong way. Everything they did taught me how NOT 2 promote & market an album...a lesson I carry with me 2 this day which make 4 my current work tactics. Sometimes I piss off the staff at Frontiers with my 'advice' as I've been through 1 too many 'mistakes' in my life.

Your most recent venture with a major label was the Rock Star movie. How was
it working on that?
An absolute blast! I'd worked with (producer) Tom Werman 4 years in the 90's doing background vocals on every band he produced from Stryper onward.
I always wanted 2 work with him in an environment I'd be doing lead vocals & lucky 4 me, he, Jeff Pilson & Zakk pulled me into the project when they needed their lead character's voice. I'd love 2 have done the more prominent role's voice (Mark Wahlberg's), but ironically I'm the voice of the main singer, the head honcho, instead of the guy from the cover band.....the 'Boogie Knights' type guy!

I hear that Mark was over stepping the credits with what he sung for the movie. Does that crap make you laugh or get you frustrated?
Not at all, especially since I didn't sing 4 his character. I think he meant he sang some things himself in the movie where there were certain parts he actually was.

Wasn't there also a project for the Queen Of The Damned movie? You were going to be the featured vocalist were you not?
Yes, that's a frustrating story in itself.
I met Richard Gibbs, 1 of the composers of the score with Jonathan Davis of Korn, at a Korn concert 2 years ago briefly. When it was realized Jonathan's voice could not legally remain on the songs 4 the album soundtrack (his voice is in the movie 4 the lead character, the same as mine was provided 4 Rock Star), they began their search 4 someone who could recreate the vocals as identical 2 Jonathan's as possible.
Originally, the soundtrack was supposed 2 be released on Aaliyah's record label since she was also 1 of the stars of the movie. With her possibly including some unreleased tracks on the soundtrack, there was no concern about hiring a singer who didn't have a 'current' track record here in the US & I was brought onboard.
The unfortunate incident of Aaliyah's untimely death led 2 the doors of her label closing & the soundtrack needing a new home.
Warner Bros. picked it up, but realized without her involvement, the album had no weight 2 sell 2 a contemporary audience, so my 5 track were redone by singers from Linkin Park, Static X, Orgy, Disturbed & Marilyn Manson...I can't really blame them, they made a corporate decision based on business. It had nothing 2 do with my performance, which was actually damn cool if I might say so myself. Yet another challenge I put forth 2 myself, having 2 sing very heavy, Goth-type songs. I had a blast working with Jon & Richard despite the outcome.

So Jeff, in summary - you should be a HUGE fucking star - no doubt about it.
Can you find a reason why you haven't sold 30 million albums?
Thanks man, if I knew the answer I'd be typing this interview on my private leer jet.
U know, I recently counted the amount of albums I've sung lead on....about 40+ album, more than the Rolling Stones!!! It's amazing that somehow the pattern of bad labels & wrong timing seem 2 follow me throughout my career. Someday when I do grow up & become a rock star, there are gonna be a lot of people cashing in a shitload of my past.

I say that last question with the utmost respect, as you do have a huge following out here you know! You are obviously and rightfully very positive about things right now? Where to next?
I'm gonna be a rock star dammit!!! I think I'll give it another 5 years then
I'm gonna try my hand at being a superhero!

Anything you would like to add Jeff?
Only that of all the interviews I've done, this 1 is probably the most important 1 I could do, as not only have u & Melodicrock.com been a pivotal key 2 helping keep my name & career in the public's attention, u provide a service 2 many artists out there who may not necessarily get the attention in today's major music sources, but also 2 the fans who are devoted 2 this genre & will at all costs keep it alive. I, sir, stand & salute your endeavours 4 this labour of love & thank u from all the artists & fans alike...u know I
aint brown-nosing u either Andrew, I've told u in the past how I feel about your influence & importance 2 my music.

Thanks Jeff, that's some totally too kind comments. It's easy when I am working with such great music as from the JSS catalogue.
Finally - what CDs are you listening to right now?
Nothing much really, I've been so wrapped up with work lately since Humanimal, I haven't had a chance 2 listen 2 much more than the things I'm working on. I'm digging the new Eminem & Korn stuff...I have a 14 year old son who keeps me current.

Top stuff, thanks for your time Jeff!

A&R Guru John Kalodner started out in the music business with Atlantic in 1974. He started as photographer and the writer of artist bios and the company newsletter. After moving to His first signing was a then unknown act by the name of Foreigner.

What does an A&R guy do?

Over the years John has worked with Atlantic, Geffen and Sony Music. His job as an A&R guy became so blurred, a new title was invented by one of the artists John was working with. John Kalodner's job became being John Kalodner.
So check the jacket of any artist John has worked with - the credits will read - John Kalodner: John Kalodner
In the 80's, during his stint with Geffen Records, John is credited with bringing life and record sales back to Cher, Sammy Hagar and of course Aerosmith. He was also behind Whitesnake's big break into the US market in 1987.
In the 90's he was behind the scenes bringing Journey back to life with Steve Perry back at the helm, and resigned Aerosmtih to his new home (and their old home) at Sony.
But that's just on the surface - dig a little deeper and read through his extensive resume of artists and you will see a record unparalled by anyone. John has worked with such great melodic rock artists as: Nelson, Tyketto, Survivor, Asia, Genesis, Black & Blue, Blue Murder, Thunder, Coverdale/Page, Cinderella, Damn Yankees, Bon Jovi, Toto, Jackyl and many more.
Check out John Kalodner's Discography: www.johnkalodner.com/Discography.html
and his website: www.johnkalodner.com

It was a great honor to interview John and is went like this:

Good afternoon John! How are you?
I'm very well thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to do this interview, I really appreciate it.
I haven't done an interview in a long time.

That's what I thought. I did some research and the last interview I could come up with was the early 90's.
I stopped doing it because a lot of times I was misquoted or things weren't put in the context of what I really said so it sort of really pissed me off.

I can understand that, something I'll try not to do. So hopefully we won't have that problem.
I mean if there's a comment you should put it in its entirety. A lot of times I'll say something that's a little complicated and people just edit or round out what I have to say.

It's not what you said then is it?
No it's not what I said.

Exactly. The interview I did find had an introduction asking you how you felt being in the industry for 20 years but now it's 30 years. What do you put the longevity down to - obviously some very intelligent moves?
It's probably what you would think, working with the right artists who have a lot of talent and who are stars. That's probably what the longevity is. I'm not the one who's talented - they are. It's probably being able to pick the people who have a lot of talent, who then become stars.

Absolutely. I think you're selling yourself a bit short though because I think you've done a lot of great things for a lot of great bands over the years.
I appreciate it. I think I have too but it essentially stems from their musical ability. I guess that's what I mean.

I was reading an early bio and it sort of sounded familiar to something that I felt. Being so into the music and wanting to do something. Was there ever a time where you thought you'd play an instrument or actually be in a band yourself?
No. I'm one of those people who were always an avid listener and I wanted to do that from that point of view - meaning really what my job is, still is, that I'm the fan who gets to hear their music first.

I get the same buzz from that I must admit.
I've got so many questions here and if I ask something that you can't say much about please say so and I'll move on.
Ok. There's certain things I can't and won't say anything about.

I presumed so. There's some industry stuff I'd like to ask you and also some of the stuff about the bands you've worked with. I'll start with the bands I think. Looking through the resume on your web site is almost looking through my own record collection.
Looking back on everything that you've worked with is there an immense feeling of pride?
I'm so proud of all the stuff I've done and I think about it from time to time.
In fact, I was visiting a couple of my friends in Dallas. It's an interesting story. Two women actually wanted to go to a strip club.
One woman who was actually a good friend of mine who's very normal and for some reason just wanted to go to a strip club. I went there - which I ordinarily don't frequent because I don't really like that - and they played 11 songs in a row that I had worked on, from the bands Whitesnake, Bon Jovi and Aerosmith.
I thought wow that's really cool. I'm really proud that kind of music has that kind of life. I'm proud all the time about all the stuff that I've done.

That's extraordinary.
Absolutely. I hear that on the radio a lot of times where they play many songs in a row that I've done but it was interesting in such a bizarre place to hear the same thing. That's a comment that no one else would tell you, that they went to a strip club with a girl just for socializing and not to see dancers and they hear their songs in a strip club.

Pay more attention to the music than the dancers!
Yes.

You are very well respected within the industry.
Yes, that's a great thing; it's what I always wanted.

Would you prefer a more public recognition of the work you've done? Would you prefer a bigger legacy on that side of things?
No. I always wanted to have the legacy within the music business. I appreciate it when the public knows I do things, but the public tends to be a little more unreasonable.... meaning that my web site gets a lot of negative mail that I ruined Aerosmith or… I mean Miss Storm [Site web-mistress] gets a lot of negative mail because obviously they can't get to Aerosmith or Steve Perry or Journey.
They're not available to them so they take their frustrations out on me.
I'm not sure how much I'd want to be known to the public. I prefer it within the record business. I don't really enjoy a lot of the beating I take from a lot of the public who for instance take out a lot of things on me that aren't necessarily related to me.

I understand. You're only one person caught in the middle…
It's not the thing. I mean for instance, I get a lot of negative things about that I ruined Aerosmith. Well if people knew Steven Tyler and Joe Perry, first of all no one tells them what to do. You know they do the music that they want to do. They wanted to make commercial music, their lives have changed since they wrote 'Sweet Emotion' and 'Walk This Way' and that's just sort of how it goes.
I constantly get hate mail about that and there's nothing I can do about it. I'm supposed to make the best record that Aerosmith can at that particular time. That's all.

Let's talk about Aerosmith. You brought them back from absolute obscurity didn't you?
Yes that's right.

I mean 'Permanent Vacation' was the tip of the iceberg and then 'Pump'…
We had made a record that wasn't very good 'Done With Mirrors' when I first signed them and I finally figured out the way to deal with them. I had to be very involved. Obviously a great producer like Bruce Fairbairn who I got them to use was significant and I got them to write with different people, which meant a lot. That's what I mean about the talent. Steven Tyler, Joe Perry and people like Desmond Child and Taylor Rhodes are where the talent is but I come up with the ideas.

John & Steven Tyler

The direction that they need.
The direction yes, they're the ones that create the music.

I know a lot of bands have spent years doing nothing when they really need somebody behind them kicking them in the ass all the time.
Yes, but bands don't want that and they do resent that. Even the famous bands but you just have to do your best. You're really not the artists' friend; you're their A&R person.

You had the toughest decision of all with Aerosmith didn't you. You had to tell them to start over at one point didn't you?
Yes on the 'Get A Grip' record, that is correct.

How far gone were they with the record?
It wasn't that far-gone. They had recorded for about three months and I just listened to it and I didn't think it was good enough following 'Pump' which was one of the greatest records ever made. I knew they could do better. I just told them they had to go work on more songs and I didn't think the environment of Los Angeles was correct to record in. They had recorded with Bruce Fairbairn in Vancouver and I felt they had to go back to Vancouver even though they didn't really want to. So yes, it was a very difficult decision and very difficult to do that with anybody let alone superstars like Aerosmith.

What kind of language did they use at you at the time?!
Well it's never direct when that happens. Anxiety like that comes out over the weeks and months.

But 'Get A Grip' was another wonderful record again.
Yes, it sold 15 million copies.

Yeah well they've got to be happy with that.
I don't really know the answer to that you know you'd have to ask them. It was a very good record. It was very artistic and commercial.

Do you think they've done a record as good as that since?
No. I think they've done some songs maybe better than that as individual songs, but as a whole album I don't think their albums have been as good as 'Get A Grip' of 'Pump'. 'Jaded' I think is one of the finest songs they've ever written ever.

Ok. It's a cool song.
So that's why I mean when I say I don't do interviews. Interviewers will say I don't think they've made as good as record as 'Get A Grip' or 'Pump' but then they'll leave out the things where individual songs I happen to really like on selected albums.
I really like 'Pink'. I mean some of the songs on 'Nine Lives' and 'Just Push Play' are pretty spectacular.

Yeah but the thing that makes a great album is the Track 1 to Track 12.
I'm not sure this is really a true thing and it's an important comment to this. I'm not sure that any band or single artist makes an album like that anymore. I'm not aware of any anyway.
If you think about it I can't say since 1993 when 'Get A Grip' came out that there's a record except maybe Alanis Morrissette or Hootie and The Blowfish where almost every song is good. Maybe even Matchbox 20. For instance 'Jaded' making my 2nd or 3rd Aerosmith song of all time so there are definitely moments of brilliance no matter what it is.

Absolutely and I hope they continue to do that.
When I compiled the greatest hits it just came out when I was listening to all the songs. I have to say that I probably listened to 'Jaded' and 'The Other Side' the most from all the songs.

'The Other Side' from 'Pump'?
Exactly.

I think Aerosmith were amazing in that they could tap into the youth, be trendy to the youth…
Right now they are about to embark on a sold out tour, a bigger tour than ever. That's amazing, because they tapped into an audience from 12 to 50 years old now.

I think there's only one other band that does that at the moment and I think you're working with them a little bit and that's Bon Jovi.
I've always A&R'd their records. Yes that's true. This record that's coming up is spectacular.

I thought 'Crush' was just ok.
This is a way better record than 'Crush'. It's more like what we were talking about, many good songs on this record.

I thought 'Crush' was a little bit safe.
I think the thing is Jon Bon Jovi was very focused on the songs for this record. Jon and Ritchie were very focused on the songs.

I'm looking forward to hearing it.
I think you will really like it.

Great. Another band that you've championed through your career is of course Journey and if there's any band that generates more hate mail I'd like to see it.
I've never seen such craziness as what goes on with Journey fans.
The greatest thing to me would be a tour with the original band, with Steve Perry.
God knows I've tried everything I know for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't know what else I could do. I'm sick of people writing to me about this because there's nobody who want Steve Perry to sing with Journey more than me. So I don't know what else to do.

Is Steve just not interested in touring?
I think that's what it is. That's exactly my opinion. He's not interested in touring. Maybe one day he will be.
Probably one of the greatest singers in history.
So I talk to him a lot and there's no thing I've said that motivates him. I don't know what else to do about it. I'm sick of these people writing to me.

I understand. I've had a fair few emails sent to me over the years.
Well Kevin Shirley had to change his AOL account because he got so much hate mail from those people.

They're a dedicated bunch aren't they?
I mean that's great being dedicated to music, you know how I feel about that. That's what makes the music business great is the fans.

Journey (and Hagar) manager Irving Azoff, Kalodner and Jonathan Cain.

Is Steve working on anything for himself?
I don't know, I think he is but I don't know if it'll ever get done. I know he looks great.

As much as I'm a huge Journey/Perry fan, personally I do love Steve Augeri. Was he the best man to fill Steve's shoes?
I thought so, I thought he was the best man to replace Steve Perry but you know what? He's not Steve Perry.

Yes absolutely. I think I've heard that on this new EP that they're trying to get away from that a little bit.
Yes maybe…but I don't care what they do Journey is Journey and so that's it. That's my opinion.

Yeah I understand.
I mean the thing is if Steve Perry wasn't going to sing, wasn't going to tour obviously somebody should go and sing the songs because 10,000 people come see them a night want to hear those songs. There's an obvious desire for that. Steve Augeri, I like him and he's one of the nicer guys in the music business, really cool, nice to be around with good vibes and I think the shows are pretty good but he isn't Steve Perry.

Perry was one in a million.
One in a million, absolutely.

Are you sorry to see the band leave Sony?
Yes.

Any chance you might draw them back?
I don't really know. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I can't imagine that they would be brought back with Steve Augeri. That's just a guess.
The Steve Perry thing, that might be another story. I just don't know.

What killed 'Arrival' sales wise? Was it the leak to the Internet, file sharing or lack of promotion? It was a great record I thought.
I don't know the answer to that. I can tell you that file sharing really hurts records. I can guarantee you that.
There are probably other factors but I don't know them. File sharing is deadly to those kinds of records. Those kinds of records that are right on the edge that sell 250,000 or whatever. This is the one with Augeri right?

Yes.
It was right on the edge of doing well and then that 40% or 50% of music that gets stolen by file sharing is a significantly damaging amount. That definitely hurt that record.

That was out in advance in Japan, which didn't help matters with people getting files. What about the Bon Jovi record, which has a 1-month lead in Japan, isn't that going to hurt or are they that big?
If that is the truth and I don't know that to be the truth - but if it is the truth that's very damaging. I don't even know what to say about that. If that's the truth that it's coming out, the whole album 1-month before hand it's going to be severely pirated.

That's what I thought. I even said something to the same effect on my web site on the news. The Jovi web site has September 11th for Japan and 9th October for the USA. [Accurate release dates]
I don't really know what to say about that.

It really flies in the face of everything doesn't it?
Yes. We're having severe problems with that.

I actually said on my site that I think the date will change. [It hasn't]
I hope so.

Another band that I know you've been a long time fan of this guy and I just love him to death and that's Sammy Hagar.
Love Sammy Hagar.

He's one of the most charismatic front men.
He's one of the greatest ever. He's great in his show, that whole tour I've seen it, it's great. Hopefully, I know that he and Dave want to run with Van Halen again with some summer tour so I hope that happens.

Do you think it's realistic for both of them to do a show?
I know that it is. I don't think that - it is. They will definitely do it. It's really funny you have an exclusive on that. I spoke to Sammy and Irving Azoff the manager and I think under the right conditions they would definitely do it.

It's just convincing one Eddie Van Halen?
Oh I think its convincing Alex Van Halen.

Oh really?
I think to some extent. I hope it happens, it would be awesome. Those brothers are awesome. I love them. They are one of the greatest music bands ever. Sammy and Dave would do it.

What about all this press between Sam & Dave, is it just bullshit to hype up the competition angle?
Well there is severe competition between the two of them absolutely.

Kalodner & Sammy Hagar, August 2002.

Sometimes that kind of atmosphere breeds greatness.
I think so; I think it breeds greatness. There was one leg and now they're doing a second leg right so how bad could it be.

Exactly!
It can't be that bad. That would be awesome if they did a tour next summer or the one after.

I'd fly to the States to see that.
Yes you would definitely want to for that.

I saw them with Sammy in '93 and I saw them with Gary in '98.
It's funny Sammy Hagar has told me for many years that he always wanted to do a tour with David Lee Roth. Yes he really did, I have to give him credit. He told me that for 6 or 7 years. Yes that's true he's always wanted to do one tour with Dave.

What a greatest hit set that would be.
Yep. I think so. This is what he's always told me but I can't account for how it would happen.

I think nothing would bring the fans together more than that.
He's all for it.

In your opinion do you think they would record an album that way?
I don't know the answer to that.
I think a lot of the bands, if the touring is good or if there is an MTV unplugged for VH1. I guess if they enjoy the experience they might do it. The live business is so much more important than the recorded business. I think the tour would be the focus.

A lot of money to be made there.
A lot of money.

Were you involved at all with the band and the pseudo reunion with David a couple of years back that never got off the ground?
No I wasn't actually and I'm sort of glad I wasn't at the time.
That was bizarre. No I was not. I mean I love David Lee Roth and I really like the brothers, it's just one of those things I hope it happens. I mean I've only had good experiences with all of them.

Fantastic. I'm really pleased to hear that.
Yeah anything I could do I would try to do it.

The Planet Us project is an interesting angle.
Yeah I think so, but it's a whole different thing than having David in Van Halen. The Planet Us is a real cool thing. That's a whole different story that's an artistic thing. I'd like to do it, I'm interested in the music but it's just not like having Van Halen.

It'll just be a project?
Yes.

Will they record an album or do a tour?
I don't know yet. I guess I'll talk to him [Sammy] when he gets off the tour. I hope so.

Another band that you've had numerous dealings with on and off - and I'm wondering if it's back on – is the awesome David Coverdale?
Well David and I have been really close all these years. I really haven't had that much of a working relationship with him lately.
Any time he needed me I would work with him. I love the guy, I loved his music and it was great working with him. When you think about it, it was 11 or 12 years already.
If he ever wants to do anything, I would.
He is Whitesnake but I believe there should be a band Whitesnake. I also believe he should work with John Sykes. I've told him this for years.

I interviewed him and asked him the same thing but he thankfully didn't hang up on me.
He's so great.

Yeah once again I think he's one of the greatest vocalists ever.
Right. He's one of those Top 10 greatest vocalists, along with Robert Plant, Steven Tyler, Roger Daltrey and Steve Perry.

For me Whitesnake '1987' is in my Top 5 favorite albums.
Yeah that's right, for me too. I'd always work with him.

Another person who I think is a great singer, an even better songwriter and an all-round good guy is Jack Blades.
Yes. He's actually a good friend of mine. A great songwriter and a really great singer,
he really needs to be in a band or should really think about a new band for next year. He should have a brand new band.
Again I'll talk to him about it.

I talk to him now and again and he's always saying, “What should he do next?”
He should have a brand new band with another singer just like Damn Yankees was.

Just not Damn Yankees?
No not them but like Damn Yankees was.

I didn't get into 'Don't Tread' as much but I think the first Damn Yankees record is another in my Top 10 of all time.
Yeah that's a great record. I don't think 'Don't Tread' was as good.

You are working with Toto a little bit?
I don't work with them very much I mostly really pay attention and oversee their catalogue reissues and re-mastering of various formats of their classic records. I don't work with them day to day.
I just love their music.

So do I. I must admit I just got an advance copy of their covers album and I wasn't that impressed.
I didn't do that.

I heard that Steve Lukather had been producing an album with Jeff Beck?
He was years ago. I haven't actually stayed in touch with that. Jeff Beck was very frustrating for me to work with so I sort of forgot about it. I would always do anything with Steve Lukather. He's another guy who is supremely talented. He 'd probably know more about that than I do.

Is there any band that you've worked with before that you'd really like to work with again at the moment?
That's a really good question.
I'd still want to work with Cinderella. It just hasn't seemed to work out. I think they're amazing. I'd love to work with the Goo Goo Dolls actually. I'd really like to A&R a Genesis reunion. You get all the exclusives. I love Genesis; I'd love to work with Peter Gabriel, Phil, Mike and Tony. It's on my wish list.

Is it possible?
I don't know. I could tell you more when I research it in the next few months.
There's another artist that I'd really like to make a record with and that's Billy Joel. I love Billy Joel.

I was really disappointed when he said he wasn't going to write new pop music anymore.
That may not be true, we'll see. Maybe that's not going to stick.

There are a lot of records for a hundred different reasons that have never been released. The public knows of some of it but how much stuff is sitting in record company vaults around the world?
I don't really know the answer to that. Some records don't get released for various reasons.

The last Damn Yankees album didn't get released.
I didn't think it was quite good enough and at the time with 80's style rock you'd have to come up with something pretty spectacular. I was disappointed in the record mostly because of Tommy Shaw's non-participation. I say that was probably the greatest problem. Tommy was totally an integral part of it. He was busy with Styx and it was sort of my mistake because I just couldn't control him. It's one of those projects that I failed on.

It's interesting to hear you say that.
I mean the buck stops here. It lacked the input of Tommy Shaw.

Would you consider any other of the projects you've worked on as a failure?
I mean you've had so many hits it's just incredible.
So many hits. Let's see. I can't think off hand but that's one of them, a real good example. I was focused on that record and I love the band and it shows you that an A&R person can't do everything. The lack of one of the stars of the band was the undoing of that record. That's a prefect example. No one has ever asked me that before. You can fail. Sometimes you just can't get it right.

Well that's perfectly reasonable if you look at your catalogue of records and releases.
That's true. I couldn't substitute Tommy Shaw.

Any other records that you've worked on that haven't been released?
Not really, very unusual for me. I don't hide many of them. I didn't get a chance to make a Cinderella album. I think there are a few in the 80's when I was at Geffen. I think there were a few mis-starts that I had. I'd really have to search my memory for what they are.

Do you consider your Geffen years a highlight, the best part?
Absolutely, without question.

That was a big era for rock 'n roll wasn't it?
Also the way the time was in the 80s working for David Geffen who let me do exactly what I wanted. Yes that was the highlight of my career.

You may not be able to go here but what's happening with Portrait in the future?
Really nothing's happening with Portrait. I mean they'll be some bands on it like Union Underground and I'll be making a record with them. It's totally owned by the Sony Corporation and its part of Columbia Records. I don't really have to worry what's happening with Portrait. Iron Maiden will be on Portrait.
It's sort of a simple but true answer. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to do as many 80's records as possible because most of the major companies, including Sony didn't really want to be in that business. It's just that simple. I don't think there's anything more complicated than that. I don't think they wanted to be in that business of selling 50,000 or 100,000 records.

It's a shame because I think some of the smaller labels if you told them a record would sell 100,000 records they would be spectacularly happy.
I agree. On the other hand they [Sony] are very interested in Iron Maiden and Union Underground.

That's positive. I'll ask you a couple of industry type questions now.
First off - on the label thing have you ever considered your own label?
No never, I never would. Not interested.

Too much grief?
Too much everything. I make records I don't run companies.

So we talked about file sharing being a problem on the Internet but are their good things on the Internet? Do record companies understand the promotional capabilities?
I have no idea. In my opinion there's no good thing about the Internet.

Really? Just a bunch of pirates?
I don't know. You notice I have a web site. I don't rely on that for my income. If I did I would be poor.
I'm sorry the Internet ever came along. It's important for you to say that I have a web site and it's important to me, I pay attention to it and I spend a lot of time with Miss Storm on it but if I could turn back time I wouldn't want the Internet.
I don't think it's a positive thing for creative people especially musicians and possibly movies. I don't think it's going to have a positive effect on music.

Well at least it has certainly complicated things hasn't it?
Yes it's certainly complicated and it's going to be very negative for the record companies and the artists.

What about bigger issues such as Payola and Pay for Play on radio?
Luckily I know nothing about that, thank God.

Do you think labels abandon bands too early these days and they don't let them grow over 2 or 3 records and hope that say their 4th is a hit record?
Sometimes. I'm not really going to get into that, it's open too much for interpretation and dangerous to comment on.

What young bands out there at the moment do you think are going to be around in 10 years?
Nickelback with that guy Chad Kroeger. Creed probably. They'd be the two off the top of my head.

I think the Goo Goo Dolls.
I think they'll be around. I think they're super talented.

I think the bass player Robbie has to stop singing.
Yes. Well I'll tell them when I see them next.

I think Johnny's got such a great voice.
Yes. I think he's the one who should sing all the time.

Do you ever get sent some of these records made by some of the smaller European melodic labels?
Sometimes I listen to those things. It's just that a lot of times the music is very orientated towards the 80's and there's really nothing I can do. If I couldn't do anything about Cinderella, what could I do with some of these other things? I listen to a lot of the European stuff only because it tends to be better than so much other stuff I listen to. In terms of signing new bands I have to tell you that younger bands really have the edge over anybody else now. I'm sorry to say but it's true.

A couple of these labels have released stuff by artists that have been wise enough to have their own home studios and it's major label quality, some of the CDs.
I'm wondering if you've heard of a band called 'Harem Scarem'?
I'll try to check it out. Definitely the way to go. For younger bands especially if they want to play melodic rock is to do it in their home studio. The more control the better for the band. I would encourage that really.
I hope that music is being made that was similar to music being made in the 80's but by bands that are 19.

I think bands like SR-71 have that sort of edge.
I think so too. I saw them open for Bon Jovi. Really on the other hand it's all about the songs. If you listen to 'Hero' by Chad Kroeger, Jon Bon Jovi could have sung that song.
The talent of the songwriter with a good voice is still the thing that's most important.

Kalodner & Goo Goo's Johnny.

And that folks...is that.