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Starting out as a session guitarist, to being part of Elton's John band, to a partnership with Giorgio Moroder, to award winning production work for the likes of Cheap Trick, Bad English, Tyketto, Eddie Money, Heart and now his own solo record and record label. Richie Zito has seen it all. Read about some of that right here.

How's yourself Richie?
I'm very well, thank you.

Look, great pleasure to talk with you. I've been a fan of your work since Cheap Trick's Lap of Luxury.
You're going to make me feel old, be careful.

Haha. That's probably the oldest record I've got of you producing.
I was just thinking about that the other day. It was December of '86. We had everything recorded and mixed. The only thing that wasn't recorded and mixed was “The Flame” and a couple of others.

Okay.
And then we came back from holiday and mixed the last 2 or 3 songs very early in 1987. That brings back a lot of memories and that was quite some time ago.

It was indeed. You've got an amazing catalog. I've even bought CDs on the strength of it saying “produced by Richie Zito”.
Great, I had a wonderful, wonderful period of time where I was very fortunate. Once you've had some success you're in a position where you're offered things that are very, very good. The odds for success then increases and then the odds for a better record increases because the artists are a little better and a little more savvy at what they do. All in all, it's better for everybody.

Is it a slow climb up the ladder?
I don't know. Not really. For some. And for others it seems like it rockets. I totally got serious so, so early in my life, at every plateau, at every stage of my career, first as a guitar player, then as a producer, obviously I always wanted to succeed, I always wanted to succeed more, I always wanted more, so yeah. The younger you are the more in a hurry you are for it. It didn't come overnight but it seemed to come at a fair pace, frankly. It seemed to work fine for me. Once I figured out how to do it successfully, correctly, it seemed a little easier. I was a little lucky, obviously and I think like everyone else there's a time when you hit your stride.

Can you identify a time when your career started?
I came to L.A. in 1972. I was signed to Atlantic records at 15 years old in like 1967.

Wow! I was actually going to ask you about that. I knew you were a session guitarist to start with.
I started as a band and we kinda didn't really deserve a record deal <laughs> but we were so grateful to get it. It was myself and Joey Carbone, I don't know if you know who that is…

Joe Williams' studio partner, right?
Exactly. Joey and I grew up together. We were in a band together, got signed by Atlantic when we were 15 and that was our education. We went there everyday, whether it was the studios of Atlantic… and this was the days when they signed the first Led Zeppelin album, the Bee Gees, lots of the R&B stuff, Otis Reading, Aretha Franklin, Solomon Burke, Sam and Dave, all came under that. The Cream. It was a wonderful time in music and in particular at Atlantic. We were young and not really ready. It was kind of the equivalent of a Development Deal today.

Yep.
We released a few singles. For us it was just a wonderful opportunity to get close… you know what I mean?

Yeah.
To the real business. You know, walking in and seeing The Rascals, a blue-eyed soul pop R&B band of the day and then seeing Aretha Franklin. It was a wonderful education so I sort of started there. Then I moved to Los Angeles in 1973. and at that point, it was sort of the time of the singer/songwriter was in vogue and that led to sort of the hired gun session musicians was in vogue at that period, at least in L.A., at least in the circle that I traveled. It gave me the opportunity to work with many, many artists and producers and learn just so many things. Particularly later on after spending so much time with such talented producers. Learning the trade of record production. I don't think I could've learned it a better way from better people.

I haven't got a bio for you but I've done a little research…
By the end of this conversation you'll have more than you need to know.

Yeah <laughs> Neil Sedaka, Eric Carmen, Art Garfunkel, Leo Sayer, there's some amazing names for starters…
Again, very fortunate, very lucky. Stepped off the plan in '73 here and within the first year I did a tour with Bobby Hatfield, may he rest in peace, of the Righteous Brothers, within 6 months of being here. And when I got off that tour, again, formed a band with Joey Carbone and Rick James. And that was all in 1973, the first year I was here and by 1974 I started to do, not real sessions in terms of playing on people's records that were real successful, but starting to find my way into the studios in Los Angeles and in 1974 found my way into Neil Sedaka's world at a time when he had connected with Elton John on a song called “Laughter in the Rain” which was an international big hit. Then wrote “Love Will Keep Us Together” for Captain and Tenille which in America was a Grammy winning Record of the Year, so at 22 years old I was in that environment. I played with Neil, toured with him for a couple of years, started to record with him, sort of became friendly with Elton and that camp and then I wound up in Elton's band in 1980 and 1981, made 3 albums with him and toured the world with him. So I was very fortunate to keep very good company.

That was an amazing experience, I'm sure!
Wonderful. If I had known how great it was… I was too young to know how great it was. It was a wonderful time; wonderful experience. It opened a lot of doors. Playing with Elton John still opens a lot of doors. When I start to meet young bands today and tell them that I played guitar on Top Gun and Danger Zone it gives me more credibility than anything I've ever produced. Some of the moments in my life, in my past, in my career were wonderful experiences and I still enjoy them.

Absolutely. What was the first record where you were at the helm and had the producer's chair for?
I always tried to produce. I always loved playing guitar but because of the way I came up and how I came up, for whatever reason, shortly after arriving in L.A. I was a session guy playing other people's music and songs. It's different when you're on the road playing in your own band with your own music, not to underplay how much fun it was to play with Elton John believe me it was incredible but playing your own songs and doing your own thing is a little different so I always had my eye on how to be a little bit more creatively involved in the process of making a record. I was always really influenced by records. I always wanted to make records. That was always my passion. I was always trying. Always. After Joey and I got signed to Atlantic we were always pounding the pavement of New York trying to let people, get them to let us write and produce artists for them, and they did a couple of times but nothing terribly successful. But I always had an eye for it, always.

Yeah
And then doing the session world in LA, the turning point came when I became one of Giorgio Moroder's crew. I met Giorgio in the late 70s. Some of this interview isn't going to make sense to your audience because it's about rock but some of it is.

I've got a pretty diverse reader base.
Great. My first record with Giorgio as a musician was with Donna Summer and Barbara Streisand's duet “Enough is Enough, No More Tears”, which was a single platinum 12-inch that was on two different platinum albums. So that was a nice day. I then worked on American Gigolo which featured “Call Me” by Blondie. So I got into that world and that was a wonderful experience. I loved Giorgio, he was European so he did things a little differently than some of the people I worked for. And then I didn't see him for a couple of years when I was touring with Elton and I was touring with him almost exclusively. Then I came back into Giorgio's world around '83 or so and that was a wonderfully fortuitous time for all of us at the time and the first thing I did when we reconnected was Flashdance. In a short period of time we did Flashdance and then Top Gun and then Harold Faltermeyer did Beverly Hills Cop and I played guitar on “The Heat is On” and I played guitar on a lot of that stuff.
So there was a lot of traffic.

Giorgio Moroder

There's some great songs on those soundtracks.
It was a lot of traffic. And for the soundtracks there were 14 artists, not just one. There were many different opportunities. There was a band called Berlin. Then Giorgio was magnanimous enough to allow me to co-produce a couple of songs on Berlin's record. And that sort of brought me to the attention of a lot of people. Again, being around that camp at that time gave me many, many opportunities. Keith Forsey was part of that crew.

A great producer as well.
A great talent. My neighbor actually.

Really? He's cool. I love his work with Billy Idol.
One of the greatest. That helped get him into that environment and then, of course, Harold Faltermeyer a lot of us owe our beginnings and record productions to the association with that particular, that moment in time was a very hot moment in time. That was my entrée. From there, I made some records. People started to trust me a little bit. My first real hit which I think put me in play was a song with Eddie Money. It was bigger in America than it was outside. Some of those records back then did better in American than they did outside of America.

I must tell you, I'm an absolute devoted Eddie Money fan.
Oh, wow. Wonderful.

I think he's a marvelous…
At the time, as you know, there was more kind of corporate American stuff that was not so well loved outside of America.

Yeah, that Can't Hold Back album did pretty well here in Australia.
Australia's always been a little bit more connected to us in that respect I believe. That record was my first real big record. It was a number 1 rock track here, Top 5 hit in Billboard, it was a platinum plus record. It made people say, “Wow, he can produce records.” So that was a turning point in my career. And then doing Cheap Trick's Lap of Luxury and doing “The Flame”. Nothing like a second hit. One, they always think maybe you got lucky, but two sort of sets it in stone. The combination of those 2 records was the real beginning of the wonderful time I had.

Absolutely. To speak of those briefly, the first interview I did when I started this website was Eddie Money.
This is your website, Melodicrock.com?

Yeah, that's me.
I know it's you, but I didn't… okay, you're the person. You and Serafino, the two of you, are carrying the torch for melodic rock.

Trying to.
Not all by yourselves but you're certainly at the front of the charge.

Thank you! It's great to talk to someone who has greatly influenced my record buying. The first interview I did was Eddie Money and I think I'm still recovering. He's such a colorful character.
He's a wonderful guy.

I remember one thing he said about the album was he knew he needed to make the best record of his career to have a continuing career after that point and I think he did. Everyone kind of holds that up as a landmark record…
I think Eddie Money is one of those guys, first of all, he's very talented. You can't hit a homerun every time up to bat, but he has a knack a lot of times in his career he's come up with those important records when he needed them and I think that was one of those times and I'm proud to have been part of it, particularly proud that I was part of the duet with him and Ronnie Spector because she's such a legendary, iconic part of American musical history. It was just the cherry on the cake, you know.

Whose idea was that to bring her in?
It happened very organically, the song didn't come from us. It was a time where, Eddie was so used to writing his own songs even the idea of recording other people's songs made no sense to him, and understandably. We happened upon this song and I really liked it so I brought it to him and we went and did a demo of it and I think the original demo just had the original singer sing “just like Ronnie sang, be my little baby.” Eddie didn't want to sing it because he felt silly singing it, so there was a girl hanging around the studio so we had her sing what became Ronnie's part and it just became screamingly obvious at that point that she should sing it. We made the offer and thankfully she said yes.

I've talked with another producer who has worked with Eddie and I know he's a colorful character, keeps people on their toes.
He's colorful, no question.

Eddie Money

Do you have any stories that you could share?
The funny thing about Eddie, it's so easy to talk about people's antics but the world should know that he's one of the greatest guys you'd ever want to know. Aside from his colorfulness, and he is colorful, when I called him for this Avalon project he was very quick to say, “Sure I'd love to do it and I've got a song for you.” He was there in spades. It was a labor of love. It wasn't an opportunity to make money, nothing like that. He showed a real sense of friendship that warmed my heart, I must say. That's my favorite thing to say about him right now. I love Eddie. I think he's got one of the best voices I've ever heard, he's one of the most believable signers I ever worked with. Sometimes he's say things I didn't understand and I'd still believe him. He's got that way of making you feel that he's really telling you the truth. I think the best singers have a way of… believability is a common theme in my favorite singers.

Yeah, exactly. You connect with him emotionally, don't you?
You absolutely do. He transcends music and all kinds of stuff. He's absolutely emotional.

I think the track that “I Put My Life in Your Hands” is classic Eddie Money.
Absolutely. He's had that title for a long time and then when I finally heard it written it brought a smile to my face that the timing was so great for me. A big fan of Eddie Money. I can't tell you how happy I am that he said yes.

We should talk about the record. I'm going to talk about some of the other projects you've worked on.
Yeah, I'll talk your ear off and you can cut out whatever you like.

We'll talk Avalon first. It's been a while in the making hasn't it? I remember Frontiers announcing that you'd make an album for them a couple of years back.
You know what it was, I'll tell you the absolute truth always, I was working with Philip Bardowell and you know him obviously…

Yep, a great singer.
I was happy enough that he came to sing 2 songs that we wrote for the record. I'm sorry that I missed him last night because he just played nearby and I couldn't get there.

Oh that would've been a good show.
Yeah I just live around the corner. Philip and I were working together doing a cover band for fun because over the years I kind of stopped playing and I missed playing so him and I and Joey Carbone made a cover band to play up at B. B. King's, just a sort of local venue here in Universal City.

Yes.
At the time he was making a record for Serafino so I think he's got a lot to do with mentioning my name to Serafino. We never really worked together but certainly he knew who I was and vice versa because we had so many things and artists in common. It was through Phillip that Serafino reached out to me and said, “Hey, what do you think about making a record?” and I said, “Sure, I'd love to. I never did it before and I'm not getting any younger so it might be a good time.” I don't know how long it took. It seems like we finished it earlier in 2006. But it was in the planning stage fore a while it took a while to get the songs right. We did the bulk of the recordings last fall. I think I did the bulk of the recordings in Oct/Nov/Dec. and finished in January 2006. Some of the songs were older songs, about 4 of them, the rest were all new songs and that process probably started in the spring of '05. It didn't take a super long time but we definitely put the energy into it and the thinking about it and the preparation.

The album's got a classic vibe to it.
That's great news.

I kind of pondered the question of whether the songs were demos from way back.
Some of them quite frankly were and I'll tell you which ones. The one Joseph Williams sang (“Oh Samantha”) which I wrote for my daughter. It's something I wrote for her about 15 years ago but the only demo that ever existed was her sitting in my lap and me singing into a ghetto blaster, a little cassette recorder. I had a version of that and I had that and that was it. I never thought about recording it, I just wrote it for her so that was one of the songs. In fact it was Joey Carbone that reminded me that I had written it. I sat with him and we went through my entire collection of CDs and cassettes and compiled everything to come up with 20-30 songs. If I had just done some good bookkeeping of what I had done it would be appropriate. And then there were a few other songs like “Blue Collar” came “Is He Better Than Me” came, “Oh Samantha”, I think there's only 1 other. Oh, yeah, Eric Martin “I Don't Want To Want You”. Those 4 songs came from a collaboration between me and someone named Davitt Sigerson and someone named Henry Small and the 3 of us had written those songs for a band called Prism.

xx
(l to r) Joseph Williams & Eric Martin

Exactly what I was going to ask you about. Why are the Prism songs on there?
Those songs came from Prism from an album that I was very proud of. A group of songs that were written at a time that I thought was one of the most creative things I've ever been involved with. Henry and I and Davitt got together for oh I don't know how long, got together and wrote those songs then went into the studio and made that record and it was never really successful. It just sort of went away and that always bothered me a little bit. When I was going to make a record that was going to be based in… it seemed logical to look there. Those songs made sense to Serafino, they made sense to me. I was really happy to get the opportunity to re-do them. I've always wanted to be involved with those songs again. They were a lot of fun and Davitt's a bright guy, he was a Rhode's Scholar, he went to Oxford. He was the CEO of Polydor Records, a very clever gentleman. Henry Small was in Prism and A Small Wonder before that. I met him in the '70s so those were the only songs that existed prior to this record.

Great.
And then I went to Eddie Money and… “Nightmare” is the other song that came from Prism… and I said, “Eddie, would you like to sing this song?” and he said, “Sure, I'd love to and I've got a song for you,” and he gave me “I Put My Life in Your Hands” and then I wanted Giorgio Moroder and Keith Forsey involved. I went to Giorgio and Keith was the bonus because he had happened to write the lyrics to that song so I knew that song and I went to Giorgio and asked him if he had any songs that would be appropriate for my record and he gave me that song “Blue Monday” so I was very happy to have him involved. He'd give me the track and then I'd take it and put some guitars on it. Those are the songs that existed prior to the record. Everything else, brand new.

Fantastic.
I wrote them with the singers. I would create a track at home with sequencing software and then I'd email the MP3 to a singer and then Danny Vaughn would say yay or nay and Eric Martin would say yay or nay and that was the process.

You really have picked some gems because alongside Eddie Money who is a longtime favorite since the '80s, Danny Vaughn and Eric Martin are 2 others that I just buy everything from regardless.
Yeah, love it. And I didn't just pick singers that were great but again I've had the good fortune to work with some great singers and every one of these are the best, but usually there's another component to the relationship. Like in the case with Eddie Money, it's the first time that I'd ever made a hit record, you know what I mean? That's like your first… I was a virgin before that in terms of making a hit record. And Eric Martin, I produced that last incarnation of Mr. Big with Richie Kotzen. I produced Eric Martin as a solo artist and I produced tracks for Eric for movies like Iron Eagle. Me, Eric, and Neal Schon played together in what used to be the Bay Area Music Awards in '86 so that's a longtime relationship. Joe Lynn Turner I met on the road in the late '70s before either one of us were well known so that always had that… you know, old relationships. The Prism songs came from a real special place in my life and the relationship with Giorgio and Keith were integral to my higher career as a musician and a record producer, so it was all those types of things. Danny Vaughn was… first I'll go with Hugo, Hugo did Open Skyz and then Valentine first which became Open Skyz and I had a label through RCA and that was the one band signed to that label that I released so that was a milestone in my career.

xx
(l to r) Hugo & Danny Vaughn

I have that record here too.
And Danny Vaughn I just always had a connection to. We made a record together in the later days of that kind of music and it didn't fare as well but Tyketto was one of those bands that really sort of undaunted by any type of taste or style in music, they just transcended all of that and just kept the faith and made lots of great music for a long time. I always had a lot of respect for him.

Amazing songwriter; I love his stuff.
And Joseph Williams who about 2 years ago him and I and Joey Carbone, I keep mentioning Joey because we go back so long, the 3 of us went to New York to the Tribeca Film Festival, the thing that Robert De Niro is in charge of and another friend of ours did a movie that debuted their and Carbone and Joseph Williams had been involved with the music for it so the 3 of us formed a band and played there at the Tribeca Film Festival. It was another one of those things. And Philip Bardowell was part of my reconnection with playing guitar as an adult lately and he was integral to me making this record in the first place. So there were lots of those kinds of threads between myself and the relationship between myself and the singers on the record, you know what I mean?

Yeah. It's great getting such a detailed background behind the album.
That's really what it was meant…that's all true.

It brings it together.
It wasn't like, let's see who I can get to sing <laughs>. If they had said no it would've become that but thankfully we didn't have to go there. Everybody said yes, everybody made time. Joe Lynn Tuner was very busy. He definitely made time for me and he put in a lot of sessions. A lot of people went to a lot of extra work to make themselves available really made it kind of special.

Fantastic. I want to ask you about some of these albums, but I'm going to ask first, will you make another album then?
I don't know. I'm very proud of this. If you ask anyone about anything to do with any kind of sequel they're never going to tell you. And I genuinely don't know. I don't have an answer that would be honest or accurate. The real honest answer is I really don't know. If it makes sense to make it again, to make another version of it, then yeah, of course I would. And if it doesn't make sense, of course I wouldn't.

You'll just wait and see.
Yep, I'll just wait and see. If the demand is there and there's more motivation to do it or if there's another way or another part of the story that has to be told, you know what I mean?

Yeah.
For the right reasons, I'd love to.

Absolutely. Well you've just mentioned a couple of albums so I'm going to ask you about them.
Sure.

The Tyketto record, is -- amongst stuff I cover on this site -- is universally regarded as an absolute classic.
People love that band, which is great because that's a great record. A lot of the records I made at that time a lot of the artists had a leg up because they had already been successful at one time in their careers and some don't always get all of the love and attention for all of the reasons and for whatever reason I think that's a better record… I don't think it got the due that it was entitled, frankly.

It should've sold 5 million.
I don't remember what year it came out, there's a time when it started to get to the end of the genre's first life.

In '91 it came out.
If it came out in '91 it's a lot clearer as to why. Nirvana had probably already come out and the record company was already wearing their flannel shirts.

<laughs> Curse that band.
There were a couple of records I made at that point and whether they were any good or not, it didn't quite work out. <laughs>

I curse the day Nirvana came onto the scene.
I can listen to “Smells Like Teen Spirit” now, but I couldn't for 5 years.

I bet.
I'm okay now.

That record put a lot of people out of business.
Then again it put a lot of people into business. As you get older you just got to move with it.

Tyketto is an amazing record, it still sounds great today.
Yeah, yeah, it's a good record, we worked hard, John Kalodner was the… the very famous John Kalodner who also probably… the thread through melodic rock has his handprint and footprint is all over it. He had a lot to do with that record, him and Mary Gormley both. That was a fun record to make, actually.

Great stuff. Probably my 2nd favorite Mr. Big album of all time is one most people have never heard, Actual Size.
I know. That's okay. We did about 150,000 units in Japan. That's okay. It's harder and harder. There's a time when Mr. Big could do 800,000 units in Japan. This is nothing to do with them, Paul Gilbert or Richie Kotzen or any of them; it's just the climate these days. We did okay. And we made a good record. I co-wrote a couple of the songs. “Shine” was one of the songs I like the most. I co-wrote it with Richie Kotzen.

I'm a huge fan of “Wake Up”. I love…
Yeah I think I co-wrote that one too. They're both predominantly Richie Kotzen songs but I just kind of stuck my 2 cents in a bit.

That was the 2nd record with Kotzen but it had less of a Kotzen feel and more of a Mr. Big feel.
I think that was because I was involved and I wasn't involved on the one prior. I was in a real lucky position because Richie Kotzen is one of my better friends and he's my neighbor also.

Richie Kotzen

Really?
I live on a pretty musical street.

He's another great artist. I'm going to have to visit that street <laughs>
Yeah, it's great. And we've got more, we've got 30 Seconds to Mars… believe me; it's incredible who we have on this street. Richie and I go back quite a way to his first record with Poison.

Yep.
And then a couple of solo records. I've been really involved in his career and then I knew Eric Martin as well. I had an equal understanding of both components that were very important components in that record. Perhaps maybe I got it.

I think you did because the record before, the sound just didn't quite suit the band but this one sounded like a million bucks.
I don't know that record terribly well. Maybe a lot of it was Richie trying to find his way in the band.

Sure.
I'm not sure. I don't know it as well.

Actual Size sounded like a sequel to Lean Into It, it was just wonderful.
We had a good time. We made it over at Richie's house. It was fun.

Did the Billy Sheehan/Eric Martin tensions come into play?
No, I don't think it impacted on the record, at least it didn't… it certainly didn't impact negatively. You know, sometimes tension…

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it's good.
As long as you can keep it going, some of the best records are made that way. No I think everybody was very professional on that record. Everybody was very creative. Sometimes I think that my bedside manner can help in tense situations. It wouldn't be the first record I made under tense situations.

That's a question I've got here for you, I'll come back to that one.
It wasn't a terribly uncomfortable record by any means. It was quite creative.

Again, when I listen to that record I just think there's so much left in that band. I wish they'd give it another shot.
I have prior to and since then a pretty good relationship with all of those guys. So a lot of it was my relationship with Pat Torpey and my relationship with Billy Sheehan and Richie Kotzen. That served me well, I think.

Such amazing players. All of them.
Oh, God. Kotzen blows my mind sometimes.

He's amazing.
And he did when he was 22.

The Cheap Trick record put them on a new plateau didn't it?
For the moment <laughs>. Yes, absolutely. I like to think that, not every time I step into the studio with someone, but a lot of times I step into the studio with someone and as a result of our collaboration something very positive happens to their career, whether for the first time or the second time. That was one of those cases for sure. They didn't embrace that album too much, but I did.

Yeah, I don't know why.
Because they didn't write… it was sort of a double-edged sword for them. Their biggest hit… I think most people would still look at “I Want You To Want Me” as the definitive Cheap Trick song and Live at Budokan is the definitive Cheap Trick album and that's wonderful, and it is perhaps, but we made a record at a moment in both of our careers where we made a record that we needed to make and get some national market appeal to the band but I think they always had a problem with the fact that that wasn't their song.

Fair enough.
To me a C chord is a C chord no matter who wrote it.

Yeah. Fair enough.
But I'm not the artist. Sometimes that's a very difficult position to be in. And I respect that perspective of the artist but sometimes you have to look at the greater good and in that case I think the greater good was making a record that… Cheap Trick is one of the greatest American bands of all time.

Oh, I love 'em.
Too often they kind of go under the radar and where they need to be. Sometimes you need to do some extraordinary thing to make that unfair thing work itself out.

Talking of precious, the Bad English album is another all-time classic as far as people are concerned.
That's a good record, I think.

That is an amazing record.
We worked hard on that one.

It sounds like it. You put a lot of time into that one didn't you?
Yes, and it was hard work. When you produce a band, and to some extent it was the same with Mr. Big's Actual Size record and maybe a little bit with Poison with Richie Kotzen, but never as much as this… usually when you produce a band… every band to me has always been a sort of society… it's a little five-some and usually the internal politics have been worked out – this person is the spokesman, this one does this – and they have a way of coming to decisions. It's a functional unit, you know what I mean?

Yeah.
So when you produce them, you become part of this functional unit and become part of the club as it were for that period of time. With Bad English, there was no unit. None of that was worked out. It was on the job training. The Bad English record started with me agreeing to produce a John Waite solo record.

Right.
Or maybe not, but early on, John Waite was the only one there. And me. And that's when we said we were going to make a record. Then it was like, “You know what would be cool is if it was a band,” and then it was like, “okay, cool.” And then the going assumption was John would find some musicians that he was passionate about working with or whatever. That never happened. Shortly thereafter he connected with Jonathan Cain, I believe came on first and then perhaps Ricky Phillips came on shortly thereafter. And then Neal Schon said he'd be part of it but he wasn't sure if he really wanted to join yet. We hadn't started recording by any means. But just to show you how early in the project I was involved. I got in early so as we made that record I went through the growing pains and the band went through growing pains of becoming a band. It's sort of like growing up on TV as it were. So they were becoming that band. Even though some of them had those previous relationships, 3 of them having been in The Babys, and Jon and Neal being in Journey together. It was very difficult working out the sociological aspects of that relationship because they're all very strong guys, very talented, came from… it's almost like they were all in situations where they had a degree of autonomy and now they were… having to sort of compromise, not compromise artistically by any means, compromise wasn't the best word, a better word is, finding a way to work together in that particular environment. It was a challenging record. Everyone was on their toes the entire time.

Right.
Straight up. There's was no kicking back. There wasn't a lot of feet up. It was heads up ball, as we like to say.

I think that really came through on the 2nd record, wich I know you didn't produce..but some of the tension came through in the music. Even apart from the debut…
I think the record we made, I mean, I sometimes felt like, and this is no insult to anybody because I love all of those guys, I felt sometimes like I was sort of serving as an ambassador. Sometimes I was doing a lot of diplomacy. A diplomat is a better word. I was doing a lot of diplomacy a lot of the time.

Yep.
But that's okay too because there's so much talent in the room. Neal Schon would play those solos on the track. He'd say, “I don't want to think about the solos later, I want to do them now,” and then boom there would be the solo and then he'd do the rhythm guitar after. So there was some moments in that world there that was pretty great. These guys were good. <laughs>

There's a real energy in that record.
It was good. There were fights, but not like mean spirited fights, just good healthy debates most of the time. Everybody had a different perspective or point of view. It never really got out of control or out of hand. They're all pretty intelligent guys. It wasn't like a crazy record where guys were nuts on drugs or anything. It wasn't like that kind of record. It was a lot of guys that really wanted it to be right, really wanted it to be great. At times there may have been a difference of opinion, but that's the worst that it got to my recollection. I think we got a good record. I think we got one of the better records I worked on.

Absolutely,
Yeah, I think it was good.

Have there been any records where it's been just a complete, to be blunt, a real cluster-fuck, you know what I mean?
I like to think a lot of that is the responsibility of the producer, quite frankly. So I like to think that not too many come to mind frankly. Some are harder than others, some are easier. Very often the harder ones are the most successful. Frankly. So it's hard to get mad at that. Sometimes the easier ones are…

What do you think were some of the hardest ones for you to make?
I think the Bad English record was a challenging record to make, that first Eddie Money was a challenging record to make, Lap of Luxury was a challenging record to make, Heart's Brigade was a challenging record to make and I think they were the biggest records in my career.

Right. I was going to ask you about Brigade
It wasn't difficult and hard like, “Oh my God I can't stand the studio,” I don't mean that my any means. Each one for different reasons.

Heart. Why was that a challenging record?
Because they were on a path that they sort of created with Ron Nevison and they made 2 very, very successful records, so it was challenging for me to make one to live up to that, you know what I mean? They had so much success, and sometimes success can get in the way. If you take away the hunger… one of the challenges of making that record is it took a long time. We worked on it off and on for about 8 months if memory serves.

Yeah, that's a long time.
There were some breaks, but there was lots of pre-production. A lot of that was because of the time it took to make that record.

That's a long time.
For the first time in my career I started to understand what movie guys go through, trying to keep their perspective for years. By the end of that album I was like, “Wow,” after 8 months, it was a little tougher to keep my… the perspective was something that I was fighting to keep. But then, something you have to know, is that making that record, Ann Wilson would come to the studio at 5:00, open her mouth and there was nothing quite like it. <laughs> Like maybe, once a week, maybe not sing a word right. Flawless performances to the point where trying to figure out which vocal to pick was a very difficult thing to do because they were all so good.

That's a nice position to be in.
I know but sometimes it's even more challenging <laughs>

Yeah.
Sometimes it's like, okay, now what? She was a pretty impressive human being.

Wow. She's an amazing singer.
She would just open her mouth and I'm like, “Oh my God, listen to that.” It would take you aback sometimes. I think a lot of the singers I've worked with do that to me. John Waite. For different reasons at different times, each one of them made me stand up and say oh my goodness.

He's one of my top 5 vocalists as well.
He could sell you the phone book.

I love his voice.
Very believable.

I think the best album that White Lion ever released was the one you produced for them.
Again, that was when the flannel shirts were already out.

Exactly. Criminally undersold, that album.
And you can't get mad at anything post 1990. The tide had already changed. Even the Poison record I made, there were times where we felt that we were going to be the ones that showed that bands that came out in the '80s were still viable in the public's eyes. That was one of the biggest disappointments. There were a couple of songs on there that I could have probably maybe showed a more mature Poison and a growth with Richie Kotzen involved. So again, some of those records like Poison's Native Tongue, good, bad, or indifferent, or Tyketto or White Lion's record that I made, again, the dye was already cast.

Well I think Native Tongue is actually my favorite Poison album too.
It's a good record. There were moments on that record that were like, yeah, I think are pretty great.

It wasn't bubble gum was it? It was a real mature record.
Well they had grown up and gotten a couple of years older. C. C. Deville is one of my favorite pop songwriters but he wasn't in the band and, you know, C.C. has that fantastic personality, an incredible sense of humor. Richie is a way more introspective type of human being so all of a sudden the style of writing was more serious. That chair was occupied by a serious, not in a better sense, but you know what I mean – a more somber personality, so it showed that and yeah there were some moments there, like I thought “Stand” might transcend the fact that it's no longer fashionable to like bands that you liked last year. But again, it was a Gold record in America so I'm very proud of that.

Absolutely.
And “Stand” has been on a lot of platinum and multi-platinum collections since then too. I've definitely done worse.

Here's a thought for you. Something I wanted to ask you. Out of all of those bands, Poison is still on the road, Eric Martin is still playing, Danny Vaughn is still playing, Cheap Trick is still on the road.
Everybody's playing.

Eddie Money, John Waite, they're all working but how many of these grunge bands are still going? Why are people, the media, not giving this music the credit that it deserves for the longevity that it's had.
I don't know. I know that the Grunge shelf-life was kinda short, I thought. It sort of gave away to alternative music which has had a longer life. I don't know the answer. Gen X… every generation thinks that the one that preceded them were a bunch of old-fashioned people when they come along. Every generation has their own things that define them. Gen X was a very unhappy time. Although this wouldn't be the first time, there were a lot of deaths in that genre. It was a very anti movement. It wasn't based on something it was more against Ticketmasters and against this and that. It was anti-flash pop, anti-larger than life. It was more of an antichrist than a Christ. I think sometimes when you stamp out that which you set out to stamp out, you're done, your mission is accomplished. And I think there's a lot of that in that kind of music. More than there was… you know what I mean? Is that weird to you? I think before that it was a purer time. I don't know. I think that's one of the reasons why… I don't know. I think every generation, especially the kids now, they have so many things to compete with. The new musicians have so much to compete with the young kids because they have the cell phones and their Play Stations and their internet. I think the people that grew up on the music of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, that music occupied more of the center stage of their childhood, so maybe it's more precious to them.

Well it did for me completely so I relate to that.
Maybe the kids that you would think would ordinarily be at a grunge show, maybe Michael Jordan meant more to them. Or maybe we think that grunge meant a lot to them but maybe they were going to see Run DMC instead. I don't think we've lost a lot of potential… what a lot of people don't realize is that we've lost a lot of potential rock fans not to grunge, we lost it to hip-hop, frankly. That's when rock started to less occupy center stage of the culture.

And like you said, there's so many cross platforms for entertainment.
There really is.

DVDs, PlayStation.
Hip-hop really. Everything has a shelf-life and a cyclical life span but hip-hop really filled a lot of the needs that rock used to for the young guys. You can't discount that impact.

One positive, I get a lot of feedback from the bands and they're saying that there's a lot of young people coming to the shows.
Oh, God yes.

Just to witness what a real, true entertainment show is. Some of these newer bands don't know how to perform or entertain or whatever.
A lot of the newer bands, I don't like to insult anything because I think there's a lot of wonderfully talented musicians out there today that are very talented, future musicians coming every day, and I generally mean it, I'm not just saying it to say it, but I think nowadays video sort of gets you to the world quick. Everything's quicker and easier. Back in the day, before you got a record deal, well it's happening again, but there's a lot or road work that went on. A lot of time of wood-shedding and growing the band before it came to the attention of the media and mainstream labels. And I think that over time that was a shorter period of time.

Yep.
So they didn't get a chance to do that night after night after night on the stage to learn what worked and what didn't work so by the time they got out on the national or international stage they weren't quite as seasoned. So that might have been part of it. But I think that's changing now too because the new rock bands in America especially are existing before labels, they're existing with independent labels so they are very much doing that again, getting out there and getting their chops up and getting out there to the people and hopefully sell some records.

Does any band in this genre stand out to you as having the potential to be a top 10, top 40, top 20 force again?
It's a funny world we live in. Bob Dylan, I think, has the #2 record in America.

Yeah. <Laughs>
I'm 54. I bought “Like a Rolling Stone” when I was like 15 so absolutely. Some of the people sure, absolutely. Bob Seger I think is the top 5 also.

Yeah, that's great to see.
If you make the right record on the right day anything's possible.

Yep.
I really genuinely believe that. I don't think mediocrity is going to take you very far – ever. But I think sure. I think some bands may have a harder time reconnecting with their fan base. Poison did that, I worked with Poison and they're touring rather successfully every summer.

Yes.
And I was there. I did some songs with them for a greatest hits record early in that new reinvigorated Poison with C.C. back in the band, selling lots and lots of tickets and they've definitely reconnected with their fans.

Yes.
They're bringing them out in quite large numbers.

Yep. And I personally think that Journey have as good a shot as anyone.
Bon Jovi still sells lots of records.

Exactly. So why couldn't Journey or someone else like that do the same?
You know, if the right record or the right day and then somehow convincing the right gatekeeper that this is a record worth wrapping his company around…

Yeah.
But it almost doesn't matter anymore. Because it's almost like, you know, whether you're number 1, 2, 3 or 4, that's not really as relevant as making great music and finding a way to survive as a group and to continue to play those songs on the road and in Journey's case especially, going on the road and playing old songs and making new songs. I think that is success.

Yeah.
You know what I mean? We tend sometimes to… it's not sports. It's not like at then end of the day there has to be one winner and one loser. That's not the way it is. If you find a way to stay viable and make your music and get people to come see it and hear it and buy it, download it, whatever. That's success.

So you're basically saying that if they're out on the road, touring, playing to people, then more power to them.
Absolutely. Listen, any pitcher is going to throw harder when he's 19 than when he's 50 but what's the difference? A career is a body of work, not just a moment. Unfortunately that's the sad truth of what can be prevalent in the music industry these days is lots of artists, and sometimes I use the work artist loosely, whose careers really are just a moment. That's what you really want to avoid, that's, to me, not success.

Yes.
Creating a body of work, yeah. It's a rare thing, a wonderful thing. I'm proud of anybody that does that. I'm proud to have been associated with a lot of people like that.

Yeah, record labels these days seem to be less on championing careers and more for the instant, aren't they?
Well particularly in America, I don't know what it's like outside of America, cause I just got involved with a brand new independent record company called Your Music America, YMA, and I have some partners and some investors and we're starting up a new label and that's about to get rolling.

Great.
The thing is that the bigger companies have stockholders involved, the way they operate and they sort of have to go for those big splashes. And to get those big slashes they have to go after and nurture certain types of recording artists. I think because of that a lot of different types of artists tend to get ignored. The next crop of bands and songwriters and so therefore the great news is that a lot of independent record companies are mushrooming up in America and a lot of great music is starting at that level.
And that's where a lot of music is coming from. It's good. It's kind of sorting itself out where the big labels are able to focus on the kinds of records that they need to make with TV components and big stars and big stories but then because you have a band with a guitar player-singer a keyboard player-singer that is growing and developing there's quite a few new independent record companies that are creating a nurturing environment for that and I'm proud to say that I'm involved with one.

Well that is a very positive synopsis; I'm pleased to hear that.
Yeah, I'm proud to say that. It's where I see the present and the future sort of… rock is a funny word, but rock. Rock music in America.

Fantastic. Well anything I can do to help along the way as far as getting the word out to the masses.
Well yeah I'm sure if you could just mention that I'm very proud of the fact that we're starting this new company Your Music America, YMA, and again it's going to be primarily young developing artists but those are the ones that need a place to be creative.

Absolutely. They need somebody to help them develop.
Someone to help them because the bigger companies more or less say, “Look guys, we'd love to help you,” it's not that they don't want to help, it's not economically feasible until they get to a certain level. So we're there to pick up the slack. And it's happening. A lot of the new rock bands that are selling a million records, either got their start or quite frankly more than their start are more than happy being with independent record companies. I think that could be a very and already positive thing for rock.

Yep. Sounds great. Anything you'd like to add, Richie?
Did we say enough about Avalon? I bent your ear about my entire career and life because I know, you know, melodic rock and the style of music and I had a web site and a legion of fans I want to make sure that I cover a lot of base but a lot of stuff, you know, not the primary reason, but the primary reason for the timing of this interview is the Avalon project.

Absolutely. And I think we covered everything quite nicely.
Yeah, it's something that's very special to me, very close to my heart. Most of the stuff that I've done that people would know about through your web site and Serafino's company and lots of other things out there, pretty much is me producing other artists and at the time I produced a lot of those records, those bands contained very talented musicians so I was pretty much, my role was my role. This record, I got a chance to play guitar, I played bass on everything, the keyboards, so it was a very good time for me as a musician.

There's some fantastic guitar work on there.
Well, thank you. I think I played every note.

Wow.
On the guitar. I played a lot. I didn't play drums on anything, thank God for the listeners. And I didn't sing much either. But I played a lot of everything else, I played all of the guitars on it. And again, I am a musician, I started as a musician, a lot of my success and notoriety came from having been a producer but this album is kind of special to me because at my core Richie Zito is a musician, good, bad, or indifferent, and it's at the center of my soul. And I'm kind of proud of that. There's the producer part of me that's also very exhibited here by me getting up and… the good news is, I get the best of both worlds, but thankfully I didn't sing on the record. I got to produce the performances where applicable whether or not I get credit, but I got to produce and I got to be a musician too. So it really satisfied me very, very much.

Yep.
I'm cool. If you're happy, if you've got enough, I'm good.

I'm more than happy, Richie. I really appreciate your time and everything you've told me.
My pleasure. And if I've said anything insulting, please don't print it. <laughs>

No, I don't think you did. I think you well and truly played a diplomatic role…
Well, I'm a fan of everybody that worked on my record. Don't forget, every time somebody asked me to produce them, I always had the opportunity to say no. Every time you saw my name on a record, I said yes. And I said yes because 99% of the time, and the other 1% of the time the other people weren't really yet well known, I was already a fan of them. So if you called and said, “Hey do you want to do Joe Cocker?” it's like, “I'll be there in less than 5 minutes.” I was very, very fortunate and I'm a fan of everybody I've had the opportunity to work with. It's not all diplomatic, it's true.

That's great. It shows through in your enthusiasm for the record and everything you've had to say.
It's been a fun life so far, you know.

Yeah.
And those of us who've been in it, they'll say the same.

Fantastic.
All right, my friend. I look forward to reading it.

I appreciate your time.
Yeah I appreciate your time. I appreciate what you've done for melodic rock.

Thank you, Richie. And likewise. And thank you for some great records.
All right, my friend.

Keep in touch.
All the best.

Sammy Hagar talks passionately about his new album Livin' It Up, touring, his lifestyle and bar, everything Van Halen, plus more on Journey, Planet US, Montrose, Michael Anthony and then some more Van Halen. Enjoy!

Sammy Hagar is one of a handful of artists that heavily influenced my desire to start this website. My desire was to speak to like minded people about music that inspired me and through Sammy's work with Van Halen and as a solo artist; some of these tunes are among my most treasured.
For whatever reason, it has taken me nearly 10 years to connect with Sammy for an interview. But I got my interview! With personal thanks to Tom Consolo at Azoff Management and Sammy's publicist and indeed Sammy himself, my long awaited interview is below.
Sammy was in top form, passionate as always and was happy enough to shoot overtime to continue chatting with me. This is definitely one of my favourite interviews while running this site and I hope it is the first of more to come.
While I didn't quite have time to run through 10 years worth of questions, I think we did manage to cover a lot of ground for interview number 1. Looking forward to the next.
Over to Sammy….

[Sammy's publicist connects me through to Sammy...]

Andrew, Sammy here.
Hey Sammy, how are you doing?
I'm doing pretty good.
What can I do for you Andrew?

Well, it's a great honor to speak to you finally Sammy. I have been running the site 10 years nearly and you are 1 of only 3 interviews that I have never been able to do yet. Until today in this case.
Well, here we go!

I'm rapt to get you on the phone finally…how ya doing?
I'm pretty beat I gotta tell you. I must admit. I just finished a tour and it was the most grueling tour and the most rewarding tour I have ever done in my life.
I had Michael Anthony and The Other Half out there with me…so I did two shows per night basically. I played an hour twenty with my band, about an hour ten or twenty with Mikey and sometimes we'd screw around and do an encore.
I started out with two hours and fifty eight minutes, then the next show I went down to 2.52 and then to 2.48 and it stayed right around between 2.35 and 2.45. And it wore me the fuck out…hahaha…If I may be straight out honest!

Haha. I actually have one of the set lists in front of me and it's amazing.
Yeah, we did so many different sets too. I don't know…which list do you have?

New Jersey, Homdel I'm looking at.
Pretty close to what we did…hahaha. But every time we'd get bored with a song we'd change 3 or 4 songs a night and towards the end we started getting a little more radical with it.
Cause. Like I said…the Wabo's – we have a set list – but we don't go by it. Haha. So everyone says 'well, they don't have a set list'. No no, we have a set list – we just don't use the fucking thing. We use it as a reference.

Well, that's rock n roll isn't it?
Well, it keeps me alive out there. You know, if I had to do the same show every night, um…jumping around. That was the hard thing about the Van Halen tour. We were not able as a band to ad-lib and change it up too much because in order to play a Van Halen thing you have to rehearse for a month per song. So we had to do the same show every night, you know. I'm telling you, after 40 shows I wanted to commit suicide and we did 80! I was just going man…I started looking at it as an exercise. Ok, I'm going to go out and get a 2 hour aerobic workout.

I'll come back to that, because there's a couple of questions regarding that…
I'm sure.

Haha… “I'm sure” haha…do you go through any interview without those questions?
Haha.
It's hard at my age for as long as I have been doing this to go out and just do a show. Like most people would say the opposite. Like anyone who has been doing this as long as I have most of the time would say 'it's much easier to put a show together and you just go do it.'
But then it's like a job…well I don't like to work to start with. I hate work. So 'a job' is a bad word. I like to play music and have fun – every night. I like to throw a party and in order to do that you have to go with how you feel and how it feels between you and the audience.
You can't do a sterile show otherwise…I hate it…I wouldn't do it. I'd rather go mop the same floor every night; you know…it would be the same thing to me.
I gotta have fun and throw a party so my way around that is by changing it up every night and it works.

And your shows seem to becoming more of a party each and every year.
Yeah they do. It's the reason…it gives me a reason to do it. Otherwise I would be saying this isn't fun anymore.
For it to be fun you gotta make it fun and I make it fun…for the people and for myself. I honestly have a blast out there. I go out – I get fired up before the show. My band and I, we all do a couple of shots of tequila before the show…Mikey does a lot more than that…but…hahaha….we try and keep it to one bottle per show. And we go out and just honestly start having fun...goofing off, changing it up. I love to keep the band on their toes. They love it when I change it – it keeps them on their toes.
The way my drummer says it – by the third song, if I haven't changed the song yet, it gets harder and harder to get off the hook. As soon as I change the song up and throw him a curve, he gets off the hook and the show goes…and we all have our little quirky things that make the show work for us.
For me it's half the amount of tities I see by the first…if I haven't seen a nice pair of tits by the first four songs, I go 'this ain't working, I gotta kick it up a bit.'
You can't go out and beg for that stuff, it just has to happen naturally, so you have to create a good enough party for that to happen.

It sounds like you are! I hope you can bring it down under sometime soon.
Well, we just finished the tour and I'm whipped. So we are not going to do anything for a little while, but I want to so bad.
I got good news – the tequila – the only country I am launching it in outside of the USA and Mexico is in Australia by the end of the year.

Fantastic.
A company called Infusions Solutions – they have infusions.com.au. They are going to distribute my tequila. I can't make much more than we make as the demand is too heavy for America. It's like, hand made…I can't make a million cases. We are only sending about 6000 cases over for the whole of Australia. I assume that'll be gone in the first day…hahaha.

Haha….you know we like to drink down here.
Yes we do!

You had a great time here in 96 or so…I flew over to see that show. Awesome.
Well, I gotta tell you. The band has changed. We are the same band, but we have changed so much since then that it's not even – those were great shows – but I had just left Van Halen and I was really more keyed in and focused on the artist side of things. 'I want to be an artist; I don't want to be a heavy metal artist'.
I wanted to shed the Van Halen thing and I was kinda of like a person who was trying to rebel against his parents at the time.
Now, where we have come…all that has gone and the band has developed into who and what we are.
The reason I bring up the tequila thing – it gives me a double reason to come over. The distributor is going to want me to come over and promote the tequila and I'm going to want to come over and promote what I do. It all works the same.

It goes hand in hand doesn't it? Even more so with the new album lyrically. Let me ask this question – is Sammy Hagar now a lifestyle?
Completely! With this band or without this band I would be the same now. I really have found the type of life that keeps me energized and happy and puts a smile on my face and keeps me from being pissed off. It's pretty much beach all day and dance all night.
I like the whole Cabo lifestyle. I like the weather, the beaches, the sand, I love my house I have there and I love my bar. Haha…I may as well have wrote that song…haha…I really do love my bar.
Having that down the street is just one of the greatest things in the world. Sitting around the house at night – 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock – you are sitting there thinking 'fuck, I don't feel like going to bed…I can't have any more sex…I have watched all the TV I want to. I'm going down to my bar!'
And you go down there and jump on stage and play, throw down some tacos, do a couple of shots of tequila. To me it doesn't get any better than that and it is an awesome luxury.

It doesn't sound much better!
If you find it, please let me know! I'm open minded, I haven't closed my mind, it's just that this pretty much gets me off at this time in my life.

That's awesome. You have a fantastic fanbase who are largely supportive. But not everyone is going to come along for the ride. Do you find that some people just don't get it?
Oh yeah…especially with this record. Ever since I have kinda been doing this lifestyle thing – bringing the beach on tour basically. I have always said that not everyone is going to get it. And I'm ok with that. As long as I don't lose my fans and even some of those fans don't like this record because of the country element – I've got two or three country songs on there.
But it's ok. But what they have to realize is that I am not a one record artist. I am not a one haircut artist. I am none of that stuff. I am always going to change and I'm going to bring it to you. I'm going to bring you something that I think is cool and something that really interests and thrills me and that is the type of artist I am.
If you expect me to come out in the same clothes I wore the last time – it ain't going to happen. Other than my little goatee and my hair a little bit longer – I'm kinda liking my hair long…getting a hair cut is like a pain in the ass. Getting hair down your back on a hot day…oh, get outta here!
Other than a few little quirky things like that, I am pretty much…I am really a changeling…I'm always looking for something new to turn my fans on to. And not all of them always get it.
Like some fans say 'I like it when you turned me onto tequila, but I'm not buying the country trip'. Fine…I'll find something else for you.
But I'll guarantee you – I will keep find something things to throw at you. I'm not going to be pigeon holed. I want to keep my fans happy but even the ones that might be pissed off about this record because maybe it isn't heavy enough for them, they're going, 'well, we'll wait…we'll go see Sammy live', cause they have to have that!
I've made it an addiction for my fans – they have to have that...a little taste of it. They'll fly down to Cabo if it's the only place they can get it.

Sure. Is this album a bridge to where you are going?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure where I'm going with my music. I really don't. I tend to keep getting more and more rootsy I think and my roots are blues, country, soul and rock. Rock is forth believe it or not. I did not start out playing rock; I started out playing blues and R&B.
When I was going back – my first musical experience with my father was listening to Hank Williams. And then Elvis Presley came along and my big sisters went with that, so that's really country/rockabilly/blues. So those are my roots and they are really starting to come out even deeper on this record.
You know, something could happen in my life – like I could go see a band – a wild example could be some extreme far-out free jazz form band and that would blow my mind and completely set me on a new track.
I'm open like that…I'm one of those people that loves music and loves style and all that stuff. So anything could happen, but right now I'm just kickin' around the beach…haha.

Yeah, well…you have just got this record out. So we shouldn't pressure you about the next one yet!
Oh no no…you can do what ever you like. Haha…I'll just go take a walk on the beach and forget about it all.

Fantastic.
No this record I think is my best song-for-song songwriting I think. Some of my most honest.

I was going to say something along the same lines. It is a very passionate record isn't it?
It really is. I built the studio… When I went on tour with Van Halen I rebuilt my studio – I had it at my house and I took it out and put it in a warehouse and really built a studio inside a studio. It is like an air studio – it is completely suspended and my band, while I was gone for that year with Van Halen, The Wabos - they went in that studio every day with producer Bob Daspit, the engineer and just worked on sound.
Vic went through all my old amps and my old guitars and his collection and he just tried everything. And when I came back those guys just had that place sounding so freeking good I was so motivated to just go in there and just be myself and just let it all go and nuts – not even think about who I was supposed to be and I really go wound up in it man, I really got wound up in it.
I love this record!!!

It really sounds like you do and I must say that I haven't heard vocals from you so strong and clear since I don't know when.
Yeah, and it wasn't laborious whatsoever….I walked in and I'd just sing these lyrics as they were so close to what I was really feeling and doing with my life and…even the silliest song on this record - The Way We Live.

Sure!
It is strictly written about my fans sleeping out on the sidewalk at Cabo Wabo and they asked me to write a song about it – so I did.
But, no one else is going to get that just like you said and if anyone is going to dog me about this they are going to say 'now what's he singing about? Sleeping on the sidewalk… Is he homeless or something?'
It's so personal and so inside, but most of the songs are like that, so they were so easy to sing with complete passion and conviction.

Song style aside, that comes through loud and clear and it does sound like you live and breathe the record. Personally I'm digging it and I can't put it on and not be happy.
Yeah, that's what it's for. If you wake up in a bad mood – put this record on, it will change that. If you wake up unmotivated saying 'I really want to work out but can't get motivated' – put this CD on and crank it, you'll be in the gym in 5 minutes.
You'll be headphones on, walking up the mountain or on your bike fucking blasting down the road.
It really has that all in there because it's pure outdoor, night life fun. You're either going dance and put a smile on your face or start making plans – 'You know what, I'm gonna call up so and so and see if they want to go to the beach today.'
It is the manual to a good time and to a lifestyle. And I'm in love with the record.

Sammy, I have 10 years worth of questions here so I don't know how many I'm going to get to ask you!
No, go ahead.
<coughs> Sorry, I'm coughing like crazy here.

No worries at all, I'm much the same…its 7 in the morning here. Too early!
Oh, Lord...I'm sorry, I feel bad for you.

No no no…I'll do it at any time. Happy to have you on the phone!
Ok, well shoot man, you can ask me anything you like.

Ok, so jumping to Van Halen then. Do you get tired of being asked about the band in I guess every interview, being that everything is kinda on hold?
No I don't get tired of it. The truth of the matter is, Van Halen – one of the greatest rock n roll bands in history –

Absolutely.
No question about it. My era…Dave era….all of it together it fucking….you can't get much more rock n roll history than that.
It's a shame that it is not functional anymore. The last tour was really….I spearheaded that; I really wanted that to happen. I said this has to happen.
I heard Eddie had been sick with cancer and I said, you know…if this guy dies and we never do this, it's gonna be a shame for everybody. For the fans, for the band, just for rock n roll and history.
So I pushed for it to happen and it really wasn't a good time.
I wish I would have waited or tried to do it sooner. I don't know which would have been worse or which would have been better.
But if it had of gone great, then Van Halen could have been together again and I could have had my band on the side.
But as it turned out, my band is my band now and Van Halen is my side project.
And unless something really changes, it's going to stay that way.

Yep.
And not because that's exactly what I want, it's just not user friendly. It's not any fun to be around Eddie, he's not a fun guy to be around. He's just really angry and I don't know why.
Cause, it's like 'Hey dude, what's your problem? You've got everything anyone could want...', but he wants more. He doesn't want to share the spotlight…he doesn't want to share the creativity anymore. He doesn't want to be a band; he wants to be a solo artist. And he used to say that about me and here I am a fucking solo artist!
But I keep saying he is the one that wants to be a solo artist. He wishes that he and his brother could just go out by themselves and not have to deal with other people so that he can just do what ever he wants.

Well, that's where I get confused. Why doesn't he do that then…why don't both of the brothers just get out there and do that?
Well…first of all – in the band Van Halen, Eddie always did whatever he wanted, I did what I wanted, Alex did what he wanted and Mikey did what he wanted.
But then Eddie started saying, no no, I want Alex to do what I want him to do.
You know, on that Gary Cherone trip, he played drums on a few songs.
C'mon! Fucking do a solo album! Not this when you have a drummer like Alex Van Halen.
And he sang lead on a song. My God! Am I gonna let this guy sing? That'd be like me saying 'Eddie, I'm going to play lead guitar on that song instead of you.'
It's not going to be as good, you know, but he just wants to do everything and tell everyone what to do and he's fucking crazy. So it's not very easy to say 'oh, that's a good idea'.
If it was a good idea that'd be easy, but if it's just some harebrained cockamamie thing that he doesn't even remember what he said 5 minutes later…I'm not going to sit in the studio all night trying to do Eddie's solo trip with my voice.
It was tough.
Those last three songs we recorded – I could have recorded three albums in that amount of time.

Yeah, I was going to say that while they are ok songs….they sounded labored. They didn't flow or have that spontaneous Van Halen vibe.
Man, it was hoarse brother. I went in and Eddie had spent 3 weeks on a guitar part and I'd come in and do my vocal in 2 hours. And it would be done.
Now, you can make fun of me all you want and say 'Yeah, you should have spent more time on your vocals…they could have been better – fuck you!'

Hahaha.
It was as good as it could be though. Especially under those circumstances, I just tried not to be around the guy.
He was miserable.
Thank God for the producer, he really made things bearable. He kept it together.
That tour would never have happened if it wasn't for Glen Ballard. He got me in and out before Eddie and me would get in a fight. And then the tour – same thing.
Two airplanes and all that. If someone could really see what went on behind the scenes, not what happened on stage….and sometimes that wasn't so hot either.
But you would go – 'Oh, I understand why Sammy doesn't want to do it.'
Plus, if they want to do it – if Ed wants to do it or Alex wants to do it. If Ed wants to do it, all he has to do is call us up and say 'Hey, I'm sorry about what happened before, let's try this again.'
I'd give it a try, but it would have to be a little bit different.

There were a lot of reports of Eddie drinking heavily on tour.
He was pretty out of it the whole tour. There were nights when I didn't even know what song he was playing. Nobody else did either. We just stayed on the same song while he stumbled around the neck of the guitar.
And he is the most brilliant guitar player in rock history. Certainly one of them…right up there with Jimmy [Page], I don't care what anyone says.
I think Eddie is as innovative as Jimmy or anyone else and together we wrote some of the greatest songs in rock history and with Dave they wrote some of the greatest songs in rock history.
So it's all been done. I don't want to go out there and bury the goose. I would sooner leave it alone and say let this thing go down as one of the greatest thing.
I don't want to keep going out there and butchering it.
But I wish we had of hit Australia.

Same here!
We obviously didn't leave the country…haha.

Probably a good thing, right?
Yeah! It's a long flight to deal with someone on an aircraft.

It sucks!
We had our own airplanes… Ed and Al had a plane and me and Mike had a plane, because the times we tried to fly together it would almost be a smack the windows out of the plane kinda vibe.
They couldn't put us on a commercial airliner all together…not for 8, 10 or 12 hours!

That's the worst thing about living down here.
It's a ways!

Jumping to the 5150 album – the 20th Anniversary of the album being released this year.
Oh that's right.

What an amazing record!
Yeah, that's a great record. That was Van Halen! I think For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge is the best record, that's my personal favourite. But 5150 was the most high energy rock n roll record that we made with me in the band. It was just magic.
We made that album in 4 weeks! It was done, thank you, goodbye, thank you – written, record and mixed. That's a good example of what the band could be when everyone is just letting each other just do their thing and everyone comes to the table with their thing and you just get in a room and pow!! It's just instant…those were the good days.

And you went from 4 weeks on that record to nearly a year on Carnal Knowledge.
Yeah. That was kind of intentional. That was our agreement with Andy Johns, the producer…that we wanted to make the definitive Van Halen record and we were getting along pretty good then.
But I'll straight up say it – the only problem with that record was that we were a little bit lazy - we had so much success and we were having such a good time.
Fucking Eddie and I were out buying new cars everyday and racing them down Pacific Coast Highway, you know, having a good time and not wanting to go into the studio and work as much.
So the reason that record took so long was mainly because of that, but it was a great record in the end.

I love it. I kinda move between that and 5150 as my favourites, depending on the day of the week. Amazing records.
Is there any chance of your records with Van Halen getting the remaster treatment like they did with the Dave era albums?
I would think so. I would think that it is not as necessary though as the Dave records were as they were from a different era.
They were records…vinyl and all that and they were mastered on vinyl, so they had already been mastered for CD, but I don't think the technology was up to par.

Yeah.
To where we started – 5150 could probably use it, but Balance man…shit, that was hot…about as good a technology as you could get. That record sounds phenomenal.
So I don't think that it is as necessary and that's probably why they haven't done that.
But that stuff doesn't mean anything to me…I'm kinda a vintage guy. I like things to be what they are and what they were and just leave them alone and move on.
To keep fucking around with that old stuff and trying to re-sell it to the fans, that takes a little bit of a cheap shot.
But that's what broke the band up in the first place – the first Greatest Hits record. It wasn't all that did it, but it was the icing on the cake.
To me I'm not into going in and recording two new songs…and that last venture with the Best of Both Worlds package – I was all for trying to do a whole record, but three months later I'm going 'Man, we haven't even finished three songs dude…you want to tour, let's go tour. You want to make a record, go call someone else.'
I wasn't going to spend all that time in there.

I can understand that. And now Eddie's off doing his adult movie soundtrack work now.
I think that is just his way of, like I said…trying to be a solo artist and trying to do it undercover.
But he needs to get out and do it. I'm all for him doing anything. I think he should go out and tour – find a little band and go out and play…just jam and be crazy and save Van Halen for Van Halen. Van Halen - that's gotta be four of us…or rather me or Dave, I don't give a shit. It's just gotta be four people getting along and playing music together and making the music together. Not about the way Eddie is trying to do it now.
It will never work – he should just go out and be a solo artist. Go jam, go play, go make a record…shit I'm all for it. That's what I'm going to do. That's the way I do it – 'ok, that ain't working, I'll go put my band together again you know.'

What's with Eddie and Alex Van Halen jamming with Kenny Chesney?? That's your gig!
Well, Kenny's my good buddy and they know it. When I took Michael Anthony out on tour I think it made them feel insecure, you know, 'we've gotta make a statement.'
So Kenny Chesney comes to town, they call up management and said we want to come and jam…just to show that they are not sitting at home doing nothing I guess.
It was the strangest thing…Kenny called me after that and said, he goes 'Oh my God dude, how did you do it?' Hahaha.

Oh no!
It was just the craziest wackiest thing for them to do that! Why wouldn't they have gone and jammed with some rock people or something? It just didn't make any sense whatsoever, but Ed and Al don't always make sense.

Ok, so any chance we might one day see Van Halen touring with both Sammy Hagar and David Lee Roth?
Oh no! So there you would throw another monkey wrench into the fucking brew! I don't ever see that happening.
That was my dream – to try and make that happen from the last Sam & Dave…when I took Dave on tour with me – the Sam & Dave tour.
That was my whole reason for doing that – 'perhaps Dave and I will become friends, we can buddy up and then we'll go hit on the brothers…and we'll have a great time.'
The fans deserved that. But oh no…but I'll tell you …right now, David is more user friendly than Eddie.

Oh dear. People within the industry often have colorful descriptions when talking about Dave.
He's wacky man…he's as wacky as a motherfucker…but at least you know what you get. With Eddie, he has become wacky. He used to be this sweet, great guy. He was my best friend, my next door neighbour, but he's turned into this monster.
But Dave's always been crazy. So at least you know what you are getting with Dave.
Dave cracks me up. He can't let the Van Halen thing go. His newest CD is a remake of the old Van Halen songs. I don't get it…'C'mon Dave, come up with some new shit, go freshen yourself up…'

His live set list is mainly Van Halen.
Yeah, it's 25 year old material…20 year old stuff whatever it is. C'mon man, he needs to get over the fact he's not in Van Halen anymore. Or maybe he should be…maybe that's the ticket.
It's just a shame that Australia – the only Van Halen tour you got was the Cherone tour.

I saw it and it wasn't pretty.
Yeah, Gary's a great guy, but that was so far removed from what Van Halen is all about. It was too bad we never got over there. But it's not over…
Andrew – it's not over until it's over.
I'm ready. I'm fucking ready. My chops are up – I'm out there singing and playing better than I ever have in my life and I can do it – anything that comes along I can do it.
And I'm open minded to doing it if it could be fun. Take the fun out of it and you lose me. I go with the fun.

Again, I don't know when you are going to pick up that phone that keeps ringing and end the interview, so I'll jump to some other questions quickly!
Well, I think times ran out…these last three phone calls have been my publicist trying to hook me up with the next interview…haha.
I'll give you one more Andrew – take your pick!

Thanks Sammy. Thank you mate…I appreciate the extra time. I just wanted to talk about another guitarist – a friend of mine and a friend of yours – Neal Schon.
Oh, he's awesome.

I'm sorry Planet Us didn't work out as I dug the two tunes that I heard.
Yeah, that could have been a great band, but as you well knew, I couldn't come out and say it at the time, but the Van Halen reunion was coming up and I couldn't have three bands!
I didn't want to take these guys down that road and then leave them high and dry.
So I had to pull the plug on that early – especially with a guy like Neal who the second you tell him something, you may as well have told you!

Hahaha…yeah!
But Neal's a great player…probably one of the most underrated guitar players around because he is as good as anyone, but he never gets the credit for inventing anything or you know.
But Neal goes back to Santana for God's sake! And here you are with a guy like Carlos Santana who is a legend himself – you are not going to get much credibility there.
And so you know, Neal since then it's just been such a commercial ride with Journey – but Journey is a great commercial band.

Oh absolutely.
They got big because they were so fucking good. They made such great songs. It wasn't because they were hit makers…they created those hits through just great musicianship and great songwriting.
Neal has never gotten his due and probably never will, but he's an awesome guitar player.

What do you think of their decision to go with Jeff Scott Soto as vocalist, standing in for Steve Augeri.
I think it's really too bad for Steve as he is a great guy and he meant well. But he got so hung up on trying to be Steve Perry that I think it took him down. Jeff's a great singer…Jeff's the real deal. Jeff's himself…he sings like Jeff Scott Soto. He doesn't sing like somebody else and that's what they needed all along because the rest of the guys in the band are that talented – that good.
So I think it will turn out to be a good move, just too bad it happened so late…and too bad for Steve, cause Steve did a great job filling in for Steve Perry for so many years, because that's what he was doing.
Now maybe Journey can reinvent themselves.

Jeff's a friend and an amazing singer.
Completely.

Montrose Sammy?
I think like Van Halen, Montrose for me is too retro…I can't go back and do an album. Every year I try to do something with Ronnie and Bill and Denny…you know, we've done it for a few years in a row, and it's great…but it's best to keep it like that.
But to say I'm going to put Montrose back together and go out and do a major album and major tour – I can't do that.
It was a great band…really really a great band. But I'm just so different from that now.

You have recorded one lead vocal for his [Ronnie Montrose] new album haven't you?
That's right – and it's a cool song – Colorblind. We co-wrote it just like the old days. Thank God it wasn't like the old days though…haha
Ronnie and I put all that shit to rest and we've grown up and it's awesome to go out on stage and play with those guys. Denny Carmassi is one of the greatest drummers on the planet.

Wonderful drummer…
I love that guy – one of my best friends, three of four times a week we speak on the phone or see each other. So it's all good. But I don't see that band getting back together and being valid in the world today other than just being some old band just trying to do it again. I'd rather just be this old guy that's doing it some other way.
4 old guys…there's nothing worse than 4 old guys! One's ok, but 4!!!

Haha. You are doing well Sammy.
Just quickly if I can – Michael Anthony – his interview with Burrn Magazine was one of the best and most open and honest interviews I have ever read.
I wanted to get your take on that – gutsy of him to come out and just tell it like it is.
I think it's about time.
Mike has always been the guy that Ed and Al kept their thumb on. And Eddie really was not good to him on the last tour. And I fought for him and if it wasn't for me fighting for him, they would have done the tour without him.
I said 'I will not do the tour without Michael Anthony. It is either going to be the four members or I'm out.'

Yes.
So I forced Mike into the band and by doing that, they were really really not cool to Mike. And Mike is the greatest fucking guy on the planet...he's one of the greatest bass players on the planet… one of the greatest background vocalists on the planet and he's valuable.
And to treat him like shit I don't get it. I don't fucking get it.
So I'm so happy for Mike that he stood up and went out and said 'Look man, I'm just going to tell it like it is and here's what's going on.' And that's the way it is going to be from now on.
Now that could be another part of the reason why there will never be a Van Halen re-union, cause I'm certainly not going to do it without Mike and they may not want to talk to Mike after that.

I thought it was an amazing interview…I had so much respect for him already, but after I read that, I was like – wow, you rule Mike.
You know Andrew….the bottom line is that everyone can sit here and say 'Oh he's the problem, that guy's the problem', point your finger at everybody…the bottom line really is that the Van Halen machine doesn't work well anymore.
If it did, I would be the first guy there saying 'Hey, this is a great band, I want to be part of this.' And I do want to be part of this, but not when you can't. I don't know what happened to Ed, but he's a changed dude.
If you ever do an interview with him, more power to you brother.

I'd actually love to do an interview with Ed.
I really hope you do get to interview this guy. When we did the reunion and we did the new record, as much press as we could have got – if you noticed, you never saw…very little interviews… never saw us on TV, never heard Eddie on the radio unless someone called him at 4 o'clock in the morning and hope that he answers the phone.

Haha…sure.
Ok, that is because Al is the smart brother and the good brother and he keeps that fucker out of the press. Because man, anyone that gets hold of that guy is going to get an earful.

I understand. I'm up for it!
Haha….ok man, this is my other call I gotta take it.

Ok thanks Sammy for the extra time, I really enjoyed talking with you. I appreciate it.
Ok, adios Andrew, bye.

G'Day Frankie.
So I finally get to talk to you….we've never spoken have we?

I don't recall speaking on the phone to you Frankie. I know we've swapped e-mails back and forth and were doing so regularly there several years back.
I'm not sure that we were on the best of terms though when we stopped communicating.
Well you and I never talked did we.

That's the problem then.
I don't know if it's a problem, but it's always nice to talk to friends…sure.

Much better than e-mailing.
Absolutely, so it's cool.

Good stuff. You must be pleased to have a record to release.
Yeah…..I am….I think all of us are. But you know. I don't know if it's just about having a record, you gotta be happy. It's gotta be something…it's gotta be authentic.
I think that's more important than just releasing the music. What goes on nowadays – and it's great – we have such access to just unbelievable music these days. Think about it….it's just phenomenal.
I think that in our case….I know this is not just me talking. I tried to do the best we could do.

Ok, you've come close a couple of times in the last few years – getting a record finished. Why now…why did this come together now?
As fate would have it, it just came together, the higher powers, as God would have it…turned out to be great timing.
We had the time, we had some of the material, we had time go through the material, which was really cool, so we just went for it.

Speaking of the material….there are several tracks from the last few years that have been sitting around and a few new ones as well right?
Oh sure…Um…you know…when I went in to describe…and it's easy for me, people that know me creatively – and there's only one or two…. I had to look at this and I didn't have a choice.
It was an easy choice and its fun. I don't put up any fences up; I don't put up any rules when it comes to choosing the material. I think you throw down everything you got and I have a catalogue of about 400 songs, so obviously you have to go through that.
I threw down most of the stuff I converted to CDs and said there are no boundaries here.
It is about creatively and it's about the better song and the best song…it's not about politics, who or why or when.
It's about how do you feel about the song.
Its easy for people to say Andrew….those are words that may come out easily but I think following them – there are artists that might struggle with them.
But I had no boundaries; I just listened to everything behind me here in my home studio. I have a wall that is filled with CDs and DATs and a bunch of 2-Inch tapes.
I just started listening. I haven't listened to this stuff for 2 or 3 years.

It must be nice to have such a range of material to draw from.
Well, I think it is…it is a blessing. Like I told you – no fences, no boundaries, no rules. Let's take a look at the material and pick the best songs and go for it.

I'll get to the material on therein a moment, but to side-step quickly…it is surprising the time frame between the last Survivor album and this one. Life goes by very quickly…
Isn't that the case…you know what, when your children are in college you will look back and wonder where in heck has all this time has gone. I won't waste my words and say Andrew, enjoy it, although Andrew – enjoy it! It goes by so fast it is unbelievable.
I think that as we age, grow older…you get a better perspective. We get older and wiser and time goes even faster. All over the world, we can't do anything fast enough anymore.
We are all chasing the hands of time. What is this really all about? I'm a pretty simple guy, but mortality is part of life.

How was the bands input on this? How long have you been back with Jimi now? 5 years?
Since 2000 I think. Yeah, he's…you know, we love each other. It may have started to have something to do with business, but I just think it has to do with…we get on and no matter what happens, Jimi and I love each other, we are like brothers.

You have put the difficulties of the past behind you then?
Oh, you know…I don't even think that it crosses our minds. Jim is totally into it, he is beyond me with that, so I doubt he even thinks about it.
I am more into about being in the moment and he's more 'what can we do today?'
So when we combine them…it's a good combination.

You sound like you are in a very settled head-space.
Oh absolutely…sure. Part of being in the now is you think it, then you start to live it. I like it and Jim is more concerned with what we can do today, and I think the combination is very cool. So you don't question it.

You think Survivor can get on a bit of a roll now and perhaps go back in the studio and do another album next year?
Um…absolutely. I try not to look that far down the road, but sure we can. I think it has to do with taking it one day at a time and I think the realities of 2006 are a lot different that '82, or '85 or 2000 even.

They are indeed.
But, we all know that…you know that with the job you do. I think that the band has been on a roll. We have evolved…just finding a bass player….along came Barry. As I always tell him when I see him, it's always a pleasure. He has one of the best attitudes for being in a band.

And Marc has been with you for a long time now.
Oh, I have personally known Marc since 1975.

Really?
Oh yeah. I knew Marc a good 6 years before he joined the band. I was in that band Mariah…you may not be aware of them. We made a record in between my Junior and Senior year when I was in high school, for this label United Artists, which at one time were huge, but of course are now long since defunct. The president at the time would go on to head CBS Records for about 30 years.
It's kinda funny how things went. We made that record and we'd go out and play bars and all over Southern California, such a happening scene.
There was a band that opened for us, called The Toots…I used to watch them and their drummer was amazing.
The first night I got to jam with them was after hours….about 3am…I got to stand on stage with him and go a good look at him…the power and the vibe that emanates from him is amazing.
This was '75. This band started in '77, by the time we needed another drummer it was '80-'81. I found out that he worked for a marketing company, on the phones.
I was like, how am I going to find this guy?
I had this 800 number….you know how these companies work, hundreds of employees. I thought I'd call and see if anyone knew him.
When I called there….he answered the phone! I said I was looking for a Marc Droubay and would you be able to help me at all? He said yeah, 'you are talking to him!'

Get outta here…
Yeah, it's the absolute truth and Marc will tell you the same thing. Jim Peterik will tell you the same too.
I think a day or two later we were in rehearsals and Jim and I were writing songs like Poor Man's Son and Take You On A Saturday and Marc was just ripping on drums.
True story.

I like that a lot.
Yeah, then what was lacking was a bass player. Jim and I decided – back there in 1981 I think – roller skating was huge at the time and in the middle of the people skating was a band playing. Jim and I were hanging out and we have always had great mind-sync.
I said that's the kind of bass player we need. Jim says I've talked to him, he's open…he's going to come down and play with us tomorrow.
That was Steph (Stephan Ellis). Looking back on it, it was quite an evolution at the time…over two or three days. It was meant to be and also it was really Jim Peterik – Jim and I were so appreciative of these two musicians – Marc and Steph – that it sparked a writing spree that lead to what I still love – which was the Premonition record.

That's a real cult favourite amongst Survivor fans isn't it?
It's a great record – if I dare say so.

Absolutely you are allowed to say so. I think Survivor doesn't at times get enough credit. If you look at the first 3 or 4 records at the start of the 80s, there is barely a filler among 40 or 50 tracks you recorded.
Well that's am awfully huge compliment.

Not at all, the catalogue of material is just so strong.
Well, they way I just described to you that it came about was so inspiring to Jim and I as writers and the next couple of weeks we wrote songs like Poor Man's Son and it was rocking.
Maybe you are right – I know the point you are making. I think we've had a rich history of players playing and of materials…songs. In the end, that's what we always went back to.
It was always about the songs, but we also knew we were in a rock n roll band and the guys we are playing with have to have the vibe to deliver these songs or we are writing them in vain.

You and Jim Peterik had an amazing chemistry.
Oh, I agree with you. Let me put this on the table right away. I agree with you and that has nothing to do with ego. It has to do with our chemistry and how I and Jim and how we felt writing together.
We had a great vibe and a work ethic. The way we work – we had this work ethic back then. We worked hard – half of the business is about that – every musician works hard to gain a yard, but Jim and I had this special connection. We had this great work ethic and when we sat down to write songs we were able to close the door to the outside world and when we came out of the room we had a song that people seemed to always like.
Did we know they'd like it? Hell no, but we worked really hard.

There is a Survivor Greatest its album that I feel is about half as sort as it should be.
Ha! You're like me.

I don't think it does the band justice.
Well, that's another compliment, thank you Andrew.

I was pleased last year when BMG finally corrected that and put out the Ultimate Survivor.
Yeah, they did that didn't they?

Jeremy, who was responsible for that, is a buddy of mine.
Jeremy? He's a great young cat. I always used to tease him – I said 'what's left of the business is in your hands!'

He put together a great compilation.
As an artist he was just wonderful to work with. Terrific to work with.

And you and Jim both contributed to the liner notes – it was a great package.
I agree with you – I was very proud. I always tip my hat to people like Jeremy; it was great dealing with him. He's committed to telling a story as factual of possible. He put a lot of his gut into that project and I love him for it.

It pays a better tribute to the legacy that is Survivor.
Thank you Andrew. I agree with you. From my perspective, you wouldn't believe it. You know, I was excited, it was something great to do. He was dedicated to that and he said 'I'm a fan and I want to make it the best it can be'. He stayed on it and he delivered.

I'm not sure of the precise history of where it went wrong between you and Jim, and the writing partnership….I held out some hope that a project like that might see you guys consider working together again. Or at least, I got you talking again.
Oh yeah…sure….what is it you are asking me Andrew? You can be pretty blunt with me.

I have a couple of tough questions. Ok, so I'd like to see it happen, but I am not sure you and Jim will work together again.
Are you asking me if I'd work with Jim again?

Absolutely. Under what circumstances do you think it could happen?
I don't really think about this that much. I had to call Jim…I wanted to let him know what songs we were going to use [for Reach], get his new publishing info.

Really?
I got to tell you. It was fun. For those few days there was e-mails and phone calls and it was like we had never parted. I mean, if you are saying 'is there a possibility'….I don't know…why wouldn't there be?

Well…yeah…good…
If you are asking me has somebody closed the door? No, I don't think either one of us has closed the door.
Just last Thursday I got a letter from a couple of fans in Canada. They had sent me a couple of CDs from the second or third gig we played. The one thing that stood out from in this letter – he said 'the fans all know about the differences between you and Jim'.
Well…why don't they let me in on it, because I don't.

You're not sure what those differences were?
At that point in time, I had a 3 page letter and was just able to see those words and I wanted to respond to him. I was writing him back…I said to myself, how do I respond to that?

Ok, so what's your take on this? Where did it go wrong, were did the communication break down?
I don't think it ever did…my opinion. I just think there comes a point in time in any band where you know, it can be viable.
If you throw in a couple of spits of gasoline, you are going to start a fire.
We had at that point in time made a record without Marc and Steph…um…Jimmy, our singer was making a solo record, which we had no idea about.
There really is a lot I reflect on, but a lot of things that contributed to it at that time…

Yes…
…that had nothing to do with Peterik and Sullivan or Sullivan and Peterik. It just simply had to do with what happens to bands.

The politics of it?
Yes, absolutely.

I understand. You have to work together again though…
You know…we were laughing about it. If you are asking me if I have bad feelings or bitterness in my heart or something like that towards Jim…

Yes, well I guess so.
Well, I absolutely do not.

I think Jim feels the same way. I've spent some time with Jim and I believe that.
In fact, I played a show about 2 months ago and Jim played the same show. We came down to a lobby call and him and I were like boom – we'd never left. Same jokes, same lines…it was fun.

You need to do that again then.
If you're asking me if I have bitterness in my heart, or hard feelings or whether I have said I'll never work with this f-ing guy again…absolutely no.

Great to hear that Frankie. Really good. I should quickly jump back to the Reach album before we get any further away from it!
Okay.

So, the album – the thing that struck me about it – it's a mellower Survivor. It is a more mature, reflective, mellower Survivor this time around.
Interesting. Now, when you say mellower, what is it you mean?

Well, there are 4 or 5 ballads through the middle of the album. That struck me as an interesting move. Not as uptempo as past records.
Of course Reach is classic Survivor and Seconds Away and One More Time are tremendous ballads.
Thanks so much Andrew.

I was blown away by those, but there are 3 or 4 more tracks that follow in a similar tempo. Perhaps Survivor has mellowed in their age – sorry, not wanting to prematurely age you here.
That's ok. Um…I don't know. I don't think so. Somewhere along the line between Seconds Away and Rhythm Of Your Heart we came up with something like Gimmie The Word you know…things like that.
We still like to rock. We still like to rock.

Well, you definitely do on Reach. And Fire Makes Steel is great.
Love that song, I always have.

Was that the first pick for the album?
You know we didn't.

I think some of the demos of that era has leaked and has been dubbed as the Fire Makes Steel album.
I listened to all that stuff. What material do we want to do? There are songs obviously you can't turn your back on. Fire Makes Steel would be an obvious example. Then there are songs that I wrote with Jim like Rhythm Of Your Heart that shows off the voice of Jim Jamison, that have a good lyric and you know, it's one of those songs that only Jim Jamison can do.
You throw it down on the table and say, this is a ballad and I say we cut it. I'm very pleased with that as well.

Ok. I'm also very curious about the debut of this new vocalist in the band.
Oh God. Oh boy….oh….

What lead that to be?
Oh…well, it goes back to the fact I always sing a bridge here or there. I always did tons of singing or sang the demos that Jim and I would write.
We were like kids, you have to understand this – we never grew up. We want to hear it, so I'd say 'let me throw a rough vocal down here'.
That was part of the element and we had written this song Nevertheless. That song was written, unknowingly, for me to sing. At the time we didn't know it, but when we did the demo and subsequently, we tried or attempted to put a different vocal on it, we decided it didn't sound as good. So it was like 'ok, you're going to have to sing this one'.

So you actually tried it with Jimi on vocals.
Um…no, because Jim loved it with me singing it.

Ok.
Jim's got a great instinct. He always said, 'you did a great job with this'. He loved the demo. Back in the days with Jim, Jim Peterik and I…I always have these different ideas. It ended up where I was singing the song and people liked it.
When we recorded it, I said 'ok, I'll sing it'. And it was one I had a good time with and I think it's a rock n roller.

You know, one of my favourite songs on the album is Talkin' Bout Love.
Are you kidding me? That's a huge compliment.

Well, it sounds a little different than the rest of the material – your voice takes it somewhere different, but it's classic Survivor in style.
Thank you so much. It is a song I wrote a lot of on my own. The lyric and melody I wrote on my own and again, I sang the demo - it is a song that is in my range and when it came down to the studio, Jim Jamison was the reason why I actually sang it.
He said 'Frankie, you have to sing this song, I can't sing this song'.
I said, 'you can sing the Yellow Pages, don't give me BS. What is it?' He said 'I just think you sang this song great – just sing the song.'
You know Andrew, I sing all the backgrounds on the Survivor records – its part of the sound.

Of course.
He just said, 'at the end of the day, I'd just really love to hear you sign this song.'
I said but I sing Nevertheless. He says, 'yeah, but you have all these harmonies and things that you are hiding behind. Sing this one – let it be raw.'
I just said 'does that mean you won't sing it Jim?' He said, 'I don't want to sing it. You are stuck with it.'
I just did the best I can do. For me it is a matter of capturing the vibe. I don't have the throat, the larynx or the vibe that Jim Jamison does.
And then you think about do I want to be sandwiched between two songs that Jim Jamsion sings? Not really!
You have to see that from my perspective. I call him old golden throat. Inside joke. He just has a golden throat. But at the end of the day – isn't it more about the spirit and the vibe?
I had a really good time, we did a couple of takes and we were done. There you have it.
Thanks for your compliment though.

I noticed with Jimi singing – he sounds sweet and soulful on a few tracks, but them quite raspy and raw in other places.
Um, with me, and especially when Jim's on the other side of the glass, I think he can trust me with this…it is a lot about capturing the performance rather than perfection.
Rather than 'can I understand every single syllable or word', it is more about the performance and the vibe of it.
Some of the stuff….well, it sounds a little bit….like you just said. You go, 'let's try that again', then you realize that how he sings this song. Then it is all about 'well, let me just get a great performance'. It's pretty easy to do that.
And maybe if he comes out and listens to it and maybe he wants to re-cut a couple of things then it's done.
It's really that quick. What you are speaking off – that rawness – it's capturing him in the moment. I think it's without him thinking about singing or sounding like he's singing Can't Hold Back or Search Is Over.
I think it is about the other side of Jim. It is more about his vibe.
You don't have much time. When you are producing someone that can sing that well you have to capture that performance, that's your job and that's what we did and that's what you hear.
I think there is something beautiful and I think that rawness and what he's doing in the moment and how he sounds and not being directed and not being told to sing this way….just how he feels it. I love that out of him.
He delivers it well doesn't he?

One of my favourite singers.
And one of mine.

You have touched on something there that I'm going to jump to. You have produced several other artists in recent years. You obviously enjoy that side of things?
Oh I love it.

Ok, another compliment here – you seemed to bring out the best in Eddie Money on his last studio record – Ready Eddie.
That's a huge compliment. You know what; I have to do more interviews with you Andrew. My ego…I don't like that ugly thing called ego, but it makes you feel good when some body appreciates the job you've done. That's a great compliment.
I must say that Ed is another vibe guy and it's about capturing what he does best. It's all about knowing what he doesn't do best. I have known him for a long time.
He has a great vibe and if you capture that vibe, you'll make a great Eddie Money record.
You can't turn Eddie Money into something else like a pop singer, or you'll get a lousy record.

I think Ready Eddie was universally praised by fans as one of his great records.
I didn't know that. It's so great to hear these things. I loved making that record.

It sounds like it – you and Curt Cuomo made a good team I though.
Oh yeah, we did. It was just plan old fun. And of course, I got to play the guitars and sing the backgrounds. All the same old, but I got to apply it to a different artist and it happened to be some body I happen to think, gut level, is greatly talented.

I'm a long time fan.
If you capture Ed in a performance it is one he'll sing for a lot of years to come. You know….capture him during a performance, once he's done with his jokes. If you know him, you know what I mean.

He was actually my very first ever interview when I started out. Caught me off guard, I don't think I ever have recovered and that was 8 years ago.
Oh my God, God bless you. Oh yeah….when you capture him when he's doing what Eddie does, it was a fun record to make. We had a blast.

You and Curt still in contact? As you did some other work together…
Of course we keep in contact.
We worked on the Robin McAuley record. That was to be a band at the time.
Frank Fillipetti – one of my dearest friends – an absolute genius, one of the top 3 engineers in the business. He did the Too Hot To Sleep record and he introduced me to Robin. A lively guy – we got on and started writing. Writing was fast and I found him to be committed. He would finish a song with me and [keep going] rather than let it sit until next week…
That would have been a really good band in the sense that we would have had a lot of fun and we would have had that work ethic that I was used to because he works really hard.
He is also the combination of an Eddie Money/Jim Jamison…a guy with a great voice who has this great vibe. Of course, he had been with Michael Schenker for a number of years and he said 'oh, I've finally found a guitar player'.
So great stuff…the band never came to see the light of day. I started getting phone calls about doing Survivor.

Robin released that record eventually though. I enjoyed it.
Robin and I enjoyed that. He is a great great writer. Great with lyrics and melody and he absolutely knows what he does best and won't do anything less.
Great to work with.

Jumping completely off topic to something else. The Starbucks commercial – going into that I guess you would hope that it would bring the band some publicity…did it work for you?
Yeah… You know what, it was fun…funny and anytime any one of your friends, much less your band mates can go out to their mail box and there's a cheque in it – what the heck is wrong with that?
They wanted to use the track and I told them I had a version of that Jim Jamison sings and they were 'well, we're not too sure'. I sent it to them and they couldn't tell the difference….they loved it. They said, well, now we need a band.
I sad, well, we have one!

Haha…
It just evolved. I'm telling you – there's no genius behind this. There are those that want to portray themselves as such, but there isn't. These things just happen….especially in rock n roll and in music, and in commercials the same thing.
It just happened they wanted to use the song, they liked Jim singing it, the camera loves Jima n they decided lets just put the band in the video.
It was a ball. We shot hat commercial in a day and a half. All we said was 'wow, it must be really hard to be an actor'…it was fun.

And you scored an Emmy nomination for the ad! Amazing!
Yeah, I think Jamo had a great time. I think he really had a great time. These things are always in the making. We have a great thing with Starbucks.
We just played for the whole company in Vegas. This is a company that is driven by creativity. They have their own label. This is a company – that wants to see us, musicians, you and me…all do well and it's working.

The industry has to look outside the norm to sell records these days.
Yeah, they spend money and they have their Alanis Morissette acoustic record…they have some great records.

Maybe Survivor needs to do an acoustic record?
Um…..you know…..I wouldn't be against it. Put it that way…I would probably be all for it.

Ok, let's get Mr Peterik on the phone.
I would be all for it.

Ok.
Don't we have a record coming out together, ironically on the same day?

I think it's May now [June actually], but close.
Life…you can go against it or you can roll with the changes…I think in our business you have to learn to roll with the changes or you are in really big trouble.
Hopefully I have learned to do that, which is no easy feat as you know.

Well, you are still touring successfully and you are still making records…
I love to play. Just this guitar. It used to be a tree. Now it has strings. It's a tree with strings on it and I just love it. I worship the sound these instruments make. I love how they sound. If you touch them right they make a sound like you have never heard.
Touch them right and they will sing to you.

Can I ask 2 tough questions Frankie?
Go right ahead.

Two lingering things….one was the change of singer from Dave Bickler to Jimi.
Ok.

Was it hard to make the move away from Dave being that you had successfully regrouped and looked to be doing ok?
You know…..I think after talking to me for the last hour…I think you will know...on a people level it was hard. Creatively I think you also know it was not hard.
I don't want to speak so boldly here, but on a personal level if someone feels they way they feel about some body and they love that person – I think it is very difficult.
But if we're talking a switch in singers…does it mean that Jim is better? It doesn't mean any of that.
It just means that in my opinion, I have always…I make the choice to be in a band with Jim. My own…one guy, my humble opinion….there is a thing with Jim and I…I call him golden throat and I think I know how to work with that and capture that and he's amazing.
He also happens to have grown to be a great friend, so it was difficult as Dave was also a friend. But all the difficulties were on the personal side. Not the creative side
Dave was a great singer. I'm not here to say any different. Everyone knows Dave sung Eye Of The Tiger. He can sing his ass off. It's all about personal choice.

I remember getting the inside word that Jimi was going back to Survivor and I put the news online it was met with a stunned silence. No one thought past issues could be resolved.
Andrew, I have to find out about these past issues sometime.

I don't know about them!
No, it's cool….I just had to say that.

Ok, secondly…I recall getting an e-mail from Dave the day after I put this news online. He said to me that it was news to him. Obviously there was some communication problems?
No….he knew.

Ok…
I don't know…I can't speak for Dave. Smart cookie and I'll never speak for him, but Dave knew.

I was talking to my good friend John Harrell the other day and he asked if I had talked to you yet.
My friend too….a great cat.

Indeed….he asked me to bring something up with you that he forgot to ask. Search the Internet Movie Database and your name comes up with two acting credits.
Is that the same Frankie Sullivan listed?!
Haha….it could be…..it could be.
There was a time when…I didn't aspire to acting, but I was seeing some body and I was very green at it. I did a couple of things…

Chaplin…was that one of them?
Ok…haha….

Have I uncovered a deep dark secret?
No…..it just….you know what, I'd love to elaborate on it, but I just can't at the moment.
I just gotta leave it where it is. I had a friend who was a friend of some one…got me in.
I tried it a couple of times. It was hard work at the time, but I enjoyed it. That's the extent of what I can tell you about it.

Frankie, that about leaves things where I wanted. Is there anything you would like to add?
Oh no Andrew…I think we've been candid…

Sure.
I feel like…there's a vibe here….if it clears up some of the misunderstandings. If fans get a real feel through you about these myths…that helps, sure it helps.

Well, I haven't had much contact with you in a while, so I was a bit cautious going into this interview Frankie.
People like you don't dedicate your time to this for no reason. It's about carrying the torch, it's about people and relaying messages and hopefully they relay these messages truthfully and I happen to know from your reputation that you do.
For me it's pretty easy…what you see is what you get.

There is enough bullshit out there already. I don't want to add to it. I appreciate your time and your candor Frankie…very enjoyable.
Anytime Andrew…no problem. Its fun reminiscing isn't it.
Ok.

Once again, thanks for your time.
My pleasure. Call me anytime you like. You hear rumors, give me a ring.

Will do.
I appreciate your time also.

No problem, you bet.
Bye for now.

The New Cars
Let The Good Times Roll
By Mitch Lafon

It's been nearly two decades since The Cars cruised the music scene, but the band is back albeit with a few notable changes. Lead singer, Ric Ocasek has decided to remain in park and his shoes are filled by famed producer/ musician, Todd Rundgren. The same can be said for original drummer, David Robinson with his seat being filled by The Tubes skinman, Prairie Prince. In the intervening years bassist Benjamin Orr passed away and his duties are being filled by Utopia bassist, Kasim Sulton. Fear not though, The New Cars (as they are now known) are a pleasant surprise combining both the drive of the original with the power of the new members. To prove the doubters wrong, The New Cars will release It's Alive in the US on May 9th (UK release is May 8th). This new live album features a mix of The Cars classics with a few new songs. The band will also embark on its first proper tour in 17 years with Blondie opening up. To make sense of it all, I sat down with both original members, Elliott Easton (guitar) and Greg Hawkes (keyboards).

Mitch Lafon: How did you get Todd Rundgren to join The New Cars? He's had a very successful career as a solo artist and producer.

Greg Hawkes: “Well, Elliot and Todd have worked together in the past. Elliott had played on a record that Todd had produced. So, when his name came up Elliot got in touch with Todd.”

Elliot Easton: “The way Todd was invited to be in the band was that we were trying to get this together with Ric and David and when it became apparent that they didn't wish to tour and didn't want to be involved in the plans we were making... it became obvious to Greg and I that we would have to find a new frontman. We could have found a sound alike and made it sound like the old Cars and just played the hits and made a quick buck, but what we really wanted to do was have a band with a person in it who's creative, who could write songs, sing and we could record new albums with and go from strength to strength. I was thinking about it and who would be a great person for that and Todd's name came up and if you think about it – he's the perfect guy. He's a great singer songwriter. He's a frontman, a producer, engineer... just a really talented guy. We used to play a lot of shows with Utopia and I could see similarities in the two bands. There were touchstones stylistically that both bands shared. So, I felt he'd be a good fit and I just called Todd. I proposed it and he said he was very interested.”

ML: How do you think his voice fits The Cars sound?

GH: “It's perfect! I was a Todd fan before I ever was in The Cars. He's got this quality that's in between Ric & Ben, but he has his own personality.”

EE: “When we got together in the rehearsal room in LA, we played a few Cars songs and it just sounded great. It sounded like The Cars, but it also sounded like Todd. He's not impersonating anybody. It's a great combination and a great fit. We'll do some Cars live as well as Todd stuff, but what I'm most excited about is the new stuff we've recorded and that we have the ability to move forward as a new band and do new studio albums of new material.”

ML: Are you disappointed that Ric didn't want to do this tour?

GH: “Yeah, for awhile. Had Ric come back it would be a whole other story.”

ML: Do you know why he chose not to participate?

GH: “I can't say. He's happy producing.”

EE: “Ric is very happy producing other bands and making solo albums. One time, he said to me he really loves not being so famous anymore. I don't think he liked being besieged by people and being so recognizable that he couldn't have a normal day out. I think he's enjoying his life now and to my recollection he never really enjoyed touring. He didn't like it and The Cars didn't really tour all that much and we didn't have a reputation for being a great live band and a lot of that had to do with our frontman. There wasn't any communication with the audience... that partnership that's so necessary between the performer and audience to light that spark. We were aloof onstage and barely said 'thank you'. Anyway, he just didn't have that great of a time on tour, so he chooses not to.”

ML: Why didn't David want to get onboard?

EE: “David isn't in the music business anymore. He owns a restaurant and is happy doing what he's doing and chose not to be involved. It's about comfort level – people have to do what they're comfortable doing and if they are not comfortable being in a band and touring and performing then they shouldn't do it. It's as simple as that, but at the same time it would be unfair to expect Greg and I to fold up and not do it.”

ML: The Cars have been parked for 17 years. Why do a tour and album now (in 2006)?

GH: “I don't know. It's just all timing. Five years ago the subject just didn't come up.”

EE: “Well, we tried various times throughout the years and we just couldn't get it together. It just seems like it's a good time to do it. I read a lot of the music publications and I see how many of the young bands name check us or cite us as an influence. Bands like The Strokes, or Jet, or The Vines or Fountains Of Wayne are so clearly influenced by The Cars and I think their fans might be interested to hear where some of this stuff comes from. It's just an evolutionary chain and every generation adds a little bit to what came before.”

ML: Are you surprised at the reaction you're getting? You're playing arenas this summer and not clubs. Are you surprised The Cars made such an impact?

GH: “Yeah!”

EE: “I'm really happy about that and it's the difference between if we had called it something else... On some level, it just seems to me that with all we've given to this music and as much of our lives that we've dedicated to it... it just seems fair and correct that we should be able to use a form of the name to let people know who we are. Are we really going to start all over playing bars in our fifties? It's not realistic.”

ML: When The Cars first came out disco was ending and you had the shock rock of Kiss and Alice Cooper, but you guys did something different. Did you think people would love your music 30 years later?

GH: “Probably not. With the first record, we'd always say 'hopefully, we'll be in the position to do a second record.' That's how I feel about the new line-up.”

EE: “It all comes down to songs honestly. It always has been about songs and in Ric we had a truly gifted songwriter and the rest of it was magic. None of it is calculated or formulated and it's just what the five of us sounded like playing together and the way we interpreted Ric's songs. I'm not surprised that people still want to hear these songs. I could be cynical and say that nostalgia just cycles itself, but more than that I just think the music stands up and has dated a lot better than most of the music of our contemporaries. People still listen to The Beatles and that was forty years ago – so if it's good, it's good. “

ML: Speaking of the new band – is this a one time deal or are you looking to make this last?

GH: “It sure feels like a band and that's the thing that's got me excited. Playing with 'the band' is great.”

EE: “This is my career. This is what I do. If it was just a one tour cash in thing, I don't think I'd be interested. I'd like to be doing this for a long long time and the band we have is a band of great players. Kasim is a wonderful bass player and great singer – in fact he sings 'Drive' in the show. He has that sweet voice that Benjamin could do. Prairie Prince from The Tubes is just a powerhouse drummer. It just feels great with a really rocking rhythm section. We've got deeper grooves than we could achieve before. I love the old band and I'm proud of the work we did and I'm not trying to compare or say this is a better band, but this is a really great band that's fun to play with. If you're going to come back after so long like The Cars are – you have to start somewhere and the obvious place to start... this tour is our chance to review what we've accomplished as a band thus far and remind people who we are and what we've done and use it as a stepping off point to move forward.”

ML: After the tour, will you be making an all new record?

GH: “Absolutely.”

EE: “The plan is to do this tour and the hope is that we will be received well enough to warrant a world tour through 2006 and after that the plan would be to do a studio album of new material.”

ML: Would you try to do the nostalgia thing or conquer new ground?

GH: “So far, we've done three new studio tracks and to me it's like three different visions of the band. I think there's a lot of potential to explore.”

ML: If I may, what has Greg Hawkes been doing for the last 17 years?

GH: “I was coasting for awhile. I did some recording stuff from time to time. I did video game music. I recorded with Paul McCartney.”

ML: Can you share a story about Paul?

GH: “My dad took me to see The Beatles in 1964. That was my first concert. So, it was a thrill for me to record at his studio over in England and to see all the old stuff – The Beatles bass which still had the set list from Tokyo taped to the side of it... that was pretty cool.”

ML: Let's talk about your keyboard sound. It distinguished The Cars from everybody else back then.

GH: “It's just the way I played. I was influenced a lot by the way The Beatles used keyboards on their records. I loved the way they would throw in a piano for the bridges then it would be gone for the rest of the song. I had also just gotten into DEVO – right before recording the first Cars album.”

ML: Let's talk about the MTV era videos. The band was practically known more as being a video band rather than a live band.

GH: “It was back when MTV was still a novelty. My favorite, of course, is the 'You Might Think' video which was done on the video paint box. It was done in front of the blue screen and they fill in the background. It was really the first video that had that kind of video/cartoon-y look to it. I still love the look of it!”

EE: “After a while I guess, but our first big success was with Candy-O way before the MTV era. Our videos were cutting edge as we were with our music or technology. The 'You Might Think' video, in fact, won for Best Video at the first MTV annual video awards, but I never thought about it as 'oh, we're a video band.' But to us, we were just a band doing what comes next and once the world moved into that visual image video era it was quite important. It was something you did with your new single and as long as we had to do it – we felt we might as well have fun doing it and make it great.”

ML: You're using a live album (It's Alive) to present The New Cars...

GH: “Yeah, it's kind of funny. One of the challenges of presenting the new band is 'how well do they play The Cars songs'. So, this will be the answer to that question... I guess (laughs). Use this as a starting point and hopefully move on from there.”

EE: “One of the things we wanted to accomplish by doing this live album was... people are going to be wondering about this band, so they can buy this record and hear that it's us and the new song 'Not Tonight' sounds like a classic Cars single.”

ML: The New Cars live set has included songs by The Nazz and Todd's solo stuff...

GH: “I'm hoping we'll include more. We just haven't gotten around to learning them yet. It's perfectly natural that Todd brings in his whole... he's got a legion of fans who'll come to see him and wonder 'what's he doing with these guys?' It's a perfectly natural acknowledgment of not just Elliott and I's history, but his and Kasim's as well.”

ML: A lot of “fans” or should I say people on the internet have been complaining that this is NOT The Cars. Ric's not there. David's NOT there. Ben has passed away...

GH: “I guess the 'New' part of it is to distinguish it from when David & Ric were there. You can argue that it should be a completely separate name that had nothing to do with The Cars and I wrestled with that internally myself for awhile...”

EE: “We're careful to call it The New Cars because we don't want to mislead anybody to think that it's the old band and that they should be expecting to see Ric and David when they come to the shows. It's a new band, but the hope and wish is to use our past legacy to build upon.”

ML: Any words about Benjamin Orr?

GH: “One thing I'll say – this whole project and everybody involved has nothing but the utmost respect for Ben.”

EE: “Benjamin meant so much to the original Cars and I miss him terribly. Besides being a member of the band he was my friend. He was my brother and I loved him. I miss the guy... quite apart from what he brought to the band and what he brought to the band was considerable. Not least was his incredible singing. When you change any member of a band – it becomes a different band. So changing three members, it really is a different band. The chemistry is completely different and I think perhaps if Benjamin was still with us, he'd be involved in what we're doing.”

ML: Is it hard to hear someone else sing 'Drive'?

GH: “In a sense. In the last couple of years, I've taken to performing that song on ukulele.”

EE: “We love the song... and we think about how to present it and how to interpret it. I think we found a way to play the song that we're comfortable with. That's all I can say really.”

ML: Are you happy playing The Cars music again? Did you miss playing The Cars songs?

EE: “Oh, yes. It was. It really was. Greg and I and the others spent our youths making those songs popular and establishing that band and I'm very proud of the work we did with that band. I've always felt like we stopped before we really had to. We made the Door To Door record and it didn't do that well and we should have said 'ok, we didn't knock it out of the ball park this time, so let's just take some time off and we'll get it right.' But instead, the first record we put out that wasn't a huge success (because all the others had gone platinum) we just folded and said 'that's it.' The way the band split wasn't an argument... Ric decided to leave. It was Christmas of '87 and we had just come off tour, he and I were mixing a live radio broadcast at Electric Lady studios and he just said to me 'I'm leaving the band.' It wasn't like the band is over. It was just 'I'm leaving the band.' After that we just didn't feel like continuing. It was a difficult moment and I went through a mourning period because it had been my life for so long.”

ML: Your tour brings you to Montreal on June 23

Ok Danny. Great to finally hook up with you. You have a partnership of sorts with producer David Prater. How did you guys get hooked up for the debut album?
Michael Kaplan was our A & R guy; Don Grisham was the guy that signed this band. And Don Grisham was also the guy that … I wouldn't use the word insisted but he is really, really the guy that suggested very, very strongly that we use David Prater to produce the record.

Right, OK.
Because originally we had somebody else lined up. Or I shouldn't say that we had them lined up, we had met with a guy named Terry Thompson I believe.

Oh, Terry Thomas?
Thomas rather who had done Bad Company, right?

And went on to do Giant.
Terry Thomas was the guy, the first guy that we were interested in. Terry Thomas came to New York, took a meeting with us and came to a rehearsal, the studio and came and listened to our stuff, listened to us play and said, “Yeah, I'm interested.” The scheduling just wasn't right. He had just agreed to do a project that was going to take him like, 3, 4 or maybe even 6 months perhaps. He said well look, if you guys can wait, or if you're interested, I'm interested and if we can schedule this 6 months down the road that would be wonderful. Don Grisham said we can't afford to wait 6 months. The time is now and we sort of need to continue with the momentum that we have.

Yep. Yep.
And Prater had done really good sounding demos for us so Don basically stepped in and said look, this is pointless. I'm looking for somebody else. The guy he used was the guy he used for the demo. He did a wonderful job and that was how that whole thing happened.

Right. That's interesting you should say because Terry Thomas has got a similar production style I would have thought.
Yeah, well I was, at the time, you know what? I couldn't tell you a song or even an album title right now but at the time I was really sort of, very into that whole Bad Company sound. Because they were doing a more contemporary, again, like melodic rock / light metal thing.

Yeah, exactly.
But he wasn't available so we got David Prater.

He sounds like a character to work with.
Oh he…have you spoken to this guy?

A little yes…
First, he's incredibly bright and exceptionally, really exceptionally articulate but he's completely out of his mind. And he always has been and he probably always will be.

That's fine. Creative genius
Oh no, he's really…he can be very, very charming, very, very lovely…he's just manic.
He's one of these guys that doesn't do anything half way. And he gets really, really excited and he's manic. But exceptionally capable and an exceptional drummer. Despite the fact he fancies himself as a producer and he has in fact become that…the thing that he really does better than anything else as far as I'm concerned is play the drums. He's an amazing drummer. I'm not at all, even remotely familiar, I don't even know that I ever even heard that Night Ranger record that he did.

Ah, it's very good.
Is it really?

I like it. It's not a standard Night Ranger album by any stretch but it's a very good melodic rock album and has a contemporary feel and I like it a lot.
Yeah, yeah, I'll have to listen to it now then. I'll have to give it a listen.

I'm also a fan of David's work with Dream Theater. That's my favorite album of theirs as well.
I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he is…I mean he's proud of all of the things he's done but I think that he is particularly proud of that first Dream Theater record.

Yeah, it's an amazing record.
Yeah, it's an amazing record; I think he really feels as though that was really his baby. It was something that he took from sort of like an infancy, I mean I don't know that much about where that band came from, I'm familiar with where they've ended up, but not really where they came from, and he was exceptionally proud of that record. And from what I've heard, and from the things that I've read, he has every reason to feel that way.

I think it's still the band's best album.
Oh it is, absolutely. And it is pretty extraordinary. It's pretty extraordinary, he did an amazing job with them. Another band that he'll tell you effectively, they turned their back on him after they made that record. I guess they did one other record with them, didn't they? Or did he produce a live record?

He did one more studio record with them I think.
One of those bands that never really…because he's difficult to work with. I'm one of the few people that have gone back for seconds.
Did you read his…obviously you read it. [David's passionate post regarding the new DFP record]

Yeah I did, I posted it on the site.
Because you posted it on the site. I got into real deep trouble with Yul Vasquez
because of that.

Really!?
Oh my, because Yul thought that I had something to do with it.

Right, OK.
And Yul and David always had a contentious relationship. They were never really the best of friends and David never really thought that Yul was a particularly good guitar player. So there was a lot of head butting and a lot of ego involved in their relationship.
David Prater, again I say this lovingly, anything I say about David Prater I say lovingly.

I can understand that.
Because he is in fact one of my closest friends, but he's got an ego the size of the state of Texas. Despite the fact he said in a letter that you posted that it had nothing to do with ego, you know. Really, on some level, everything that David does has something to do with his ego. But yeah, Yul called me like 2 days later. Because Yul's an actor. I don't know if you're aware of the fact that Yul has become a reasonably successful actor.

OK. I think I heard something…
I mean, he was just in War of the Worlds. He was just in the new Steven Speilberg…

I haven't seen that.
I haven't seen it either but…, and he doesn't have a huge part in it but he's in like the first 20 minutes of it perhaps. But he was in a … he did, I guess last summer there was a … or 2 summers ago perhaps there was a film called Bad Boys 2 with Will Smith and there's another actor, I forgot his name, a comedic actor, but Yul had a good size role in that. He was in Traffic. He was the assassin in Traffic. I don't know if you saw Traffic.

I haven't seen Traffic either, no.
Well alright, if you see Traffic, he's the assassin, in Traffic. And he's done a lot of television here. So anyway, he has a publicist that sort of does a Google search on him every day just to see what's new out there and what came up. So the publicist read that and said, look, you should probably read this and he called me and said, look, because despite what David Prater may think, and David Prater…it's become public knowledge at this point he did in fact play drums on the record. And he did in fact have to replace some bass parts because, you know, once you re-cut the drums, I mean the bass player, our bass player at the time, a guy named David Weeks, once you cut drums, you cut drums with the bass. I mean rather, you cut bass with the drums.

Yeah, gotcha.
And then once we replaced all the drumming, it really became essential to replace some of the bass parts as well. And because David Weeks, who again was the bass player at the time had already left Nashville and I believe he had gone back to Los Angeles which was where he was living at the time. It was a lot more cost effective and also timely, it saved us…to just have David play some bass. But I don't ever remember. And I can't argue with David because I wasn't there in the studio, you know, with them 16-20 hours a day. I was there but I don't ever remember David having played any guitar.

Yeah, OK.
And that is my story and what you posted on your page is his story.

Yes.
Which is every bit as valid as mine because he'll tell you, well Danny you weren't there and you don't know. And I'd have to say, OK well maybe you're right because I wasn't there and maybe I don't know. Maybe I really don't. So, but yeah, Yul called me, particularly the line I think David said something about the band was there just for live performances, photos and in capital letters with exclamation points, great hair!

Way to start an argument!
At the end of the day, Yul just doesn't really care because it's 16 years after the fact and he's moved on. I will only make one other little point about that. I did in fact ask Yul to play on this record and Yul said yes. And the reason that he didn't play on the record, it had nothing to do with whether I wanted him to or didn't want him to or whether or not he was interested or not interested, it all really boiled down to scheduling.
You know, we made the record in Texas and here in Massachusetts, Yul is a New Yorker and he has one of those careers where you kind of have to be available, so it was difficult to schedule anything with him. And in the end it just became more realistic for us to use somebody else. But it had nothing to do with whether or not he was interested in participating in the whole thing, because he was in fact. So that's my story now Andrew.

I am trying to make one point really, the point being that the first Diving for Pearls record was…3 points perhaps…was 16 year ago, secondly that at the time I think, which was a huge amount of money at the time was $180,000 to make that record which was kind of standard. That's kind of what they would spend to make a record for a new act back then, $150,000 - $200,000.
And between, from the time that we started doing the demos until the time that we finished doing the new record, really it was about a year long process. And this new record we made for a think $17,000 or $18,000 (laughs), in five weeks time. I listened to some people's criticism, and look, everybody's entitled to their opinion, I didn't expect, nor do I expect every body to like it. But I thought that was an unfair reason for criticizing it. You know, the fact that it didn't sound anything like the first record. It's hard. It's hard to make a record that sounds like $200,000, I mean sonically. I'm only talking about fidelity wise, you know what I mean?

I do.
Sonically that can compete with that, it's just really. Despite the fact that digital recording equipment has completely changed the way that people make records and the way that records sound. It really is…, it's a hard act to follow sometimes when you're working on a really limited budget.

And you had the disadvantage over a lot of other bands, I mean that was, that first album was really held in very high esteem.
Yeah. I don't think anybody expected…, I really truthfully didn't expect the record to have survived for as long as it has, and for people to have thought as highly about it as they actually… I mean I'm the same way. I would never try to convince you I don't feel the same way. I mean I still like the first two U2 records better than anything that they've done subsequently. I mean sonically just in terms of the songs, I mean, you know, and I could name half a dozen other bands that I feel the same way about. But you know… It's tough sometimes. It's really, really tough to sustain a particular focus for anything more than just a couple records. Trust me.
Had Diving for Pearls made a second record in like 1991, it would have sounded an awful lot like the first record. And I've even mentioned to one or two people that I meet that Diving for Pearls did in fact get picked up by Epic. I mean we started making a second record. And we didn't do a lot of work on it but I think we had actually begun demoing like a half a dozen songs with David Prater. He was working at a studio in New York state called Bear Tracks at the time. He was getting ready to do the Firehouse record perhaps. But unfortunately it didn't work out. But a second Diving for Pearls record in 1990 or '91 would have sounded virtually identical to the first record.

I think you did a remarkably good job of … probably half the Texas album sounds, you know, very close to the original. I think you did a remarkable job there.
Well you can thank David Prater for that when you speak to him then. Because, that was really his sort of thing, I mean I left a lot of that…, I shouldn't say all of it, but I left a lot of that to him, I mean, the reason that I asked him to make the record again after…although I asked him probably about 5 years ago if he was interested in doing something like this with me. Because I knew he could deliver and I know Magnus and I knew what Magnus was looking for and I thought the person that can give Magnus that kind of record is David Prater. So yeah, I mean, you know, I think so too. I don't absolutely adore the record from start to finish Andrew. I'd be lying through my teeth if I told you that I did. I mean I feel very strongly about maybe 4or 5 of the songs; there's probably 1 or 2 perhaps or even 3 that I really don't like at all and then the rest of it…

That's probably exactly how I feel to be honest.
Yeah, there's probably 3 good songs. Three songs on that record that I just wish that we'd scratched and found something else. But again, time permitting and with the budget you kind of have to push forward a little bit.

Yeah the record's been on the table for a long while hasn't it?
It has been on the table for a long while, yeah. We actually did, we nixed a couple of things. I think originally we started with probably 14 or 15 songs and then had to make some hard decisions about 4 of them I think and they didn't make it. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that David was doing the drums while… I wasn't in Texas when he was actually doing drums. Sometimes you get there and you just think, OK, I had a vision for it and my vision doesn't really match your vision for it so…, and we don't have the time nor do we have the budget to go back and redo the drums so maybe we should just move on and concentrate…you know what I mean.

Basically you're saying this is a pretty hard record to get done.
Yeah, it was hard, only because of time and distance. If we'd had the luxury again of a big budget we could have gone away, you know, for 3 months, which is how much time we spent in Nashville making the first Diving for Pearls record. You know, you live with it every day. It's easy to change something if you feel inspired and I know David has talked about, there was a song on the first record called 'You're All I Know'.

Yeah, great song.
You know and that song went, arrangement wise, probably changed 3 or 4 times before we settled on what we actually recorded. And we probably would have done a lot more of that this time around, but again, it's difficult to do when one person's living in Texas and the other person lives in Massachusetts. But in the end, I think we got some things that were really good and unfortunately I think we got some things that weren't particularly brilliant but we had to live with them anyway.

OK, I must tell you that I absolutely adore 'The Colours Show'.
One of the songs I'm very, very happy with. Both you and I agree there.

Another one was 'The Truth Is'.
'Truth Is'. Always felt very, very good about that song and was very, very pleased. Very happy with the way that it turned out so we agree there.

And 'Heaven Only Knows' is probably my third favorite.
'Heaven Only Knows' I love! I love! I was really, really happy with that vocal. There's a couple other things about it that I was really happy with the way that…it was David Prater's idea… he modulated it at the end and I'm really, really happy with 'Heaven Only Knows'.

Yeah, cool. And 'If I Only Knew' was another favorite too.
'If I Only Knew', a song that I sadly did not write. Some good friends of mine wrote it and I was in a very short-lived band in New York for a while with these friends of mine. And on a tape of some ideas that I thought we might, or some songs that I thought we might consider for the record, I included that. And David fell in love with it so you can thank David Prater for that, because he insisted that we do that song. And so, I agree with you there. That is one of the songs that I thought came out surprisingly well.

Why?
Because I didn't really have any expectations particularly for that song. And because David felt strongly about it, I basically said to him, well look, I'm easy. If you want to do it, and you feel strongly about it, then let's do it. And I was surprised by how well it came out. So we agree so far (laughs)!

Now look, it's a good all-round record. I have some argument obviously that it should have been a Danny Malone record, or might have.
Not that it should have been but perhaps it might have been better received because it wasn't being compared to something else. I think that was my argument. It could be called whatever you like but I think it might have been better received had it been called…
You know, Andrew, I wouldn't argue with you there. I really wouldn't argue with you. The reason why I think at the end of the day it became a Diving for Pearls record was because… I could probably give you 2 reasons why. One, it was because, I mean, I own that name. I came up with that name a long time ago and I personally own it though. I mean, it's a name that I've always liked and I've always felt strongly about so I thought…and I thought in a lot of ways, and I think I may have said this in the letter that I was going to post, at the end of the day, for me, Diving for Pearls was always Jack Moran and I. The keyboard player and I. And despite the fact Jack only got song writing credit on maybe 3 or 4 of these songs, I've forgotten exactly, he really was…because he always has been… Jack and I… Despite the fact that Jack lives in southern California right now, I mean he's my daughter's godfather and I'm his son's godfather. I mean, he and I have always maintained this relationship where we always talk about songs and regardless of where he is, or where he was at the time, because he was living in Paris for a while, I mean, I always sent him stuff and he always commented, and he always had criticisms, constructive most of the time, so I just felt he was involved.

Yeah.
I felt like he was involved. And David Prater was almost like the 5th member of Diving for Pearls really, so I thought, well we've got really... you know there are a number of…again, as I mentioned earlier in my conversation with you, is that Yul was originally interested in working on the record as well. But also, I have no reason not to be candid with you, Atenzia wanted a Diving for Pearls record.

Of course, it's easy to market.
Yeah. Because people may not know who Danny Malone is, but they may in fact know who Diving for Pearls is. Because I was the lead singer in Diving for Pearls, I mean I think they just thought… and I can't honestly say that I resisted all that much.

Look, I don't think you should have. I mean, you've got every right to release it as you have.
The reception might have been a little bit warmer.

Yeah, exactly, just because of the unfortunate 16-year legacy of that great album!
I know (laughs).

It's not very often you'd call that unfortunate (laughs).
No I don't (laughing), I really don't. It makes me very happy. I find myself sometimes thinking about it. It certainly has been a wonderful thing. I'm very proud of that record. I'm very, very proud of that record and I just have to add, despite what David said, it really was a collaborative effort. I mean, it really was. Could he have been the 5th member of the band? Is George Martin the 5th Beatle?

Sure.
I mean, Jimmy Miller. I was talking to someone about Jimmy Miller the other day and, I mean, all those Rolling Stones… could Jimmy Miller have been… would the Rolling Stones have been the same without Jimmy Miller? Would Traffic had been the same without Jimmy Miller? So he was a big, big part the sound. And a big, big part of the success of that record as well.

Yeah, absolutely!
I mean the success 16 years on. Certainly not the financial success of it, because it wasn't financially… But yeah, I mean, it's not a bad thing. I'm glad that the record is still thought of highly. It makes me happy.

There's a nice little live performance in 1990 that gets traded around the circuit too.
Yeah, I love to… David and I have talked about that because he has that whole show.

Yeah, I've got a CD-R of it or something that's from…
Oh you do? Yeah, see, good, good. I would love for anybody… I'd love to find a way to make that available to just about anybody that wanted it. In a lot of ways I like it sometimes more than I like the record itself.

I don't think my CD-R is pristine quality but it's pretty good.
I'll have to get you one then Andrew.

I'd love to. I mean if you'd like to throw it up on the site as a download we can always do that.
Yeah we could do that. Even like one or two songs would be a good idea. You know what, I'm going to talk to David about that and see if we can't do that. That would be a great thing.

Yeah, just celebrate the band a little bit more.
Absolutely, I would love to do that. I'd have to see if I could coerce him to do it, but I don't see any reason why he wouldn't want to do it.

Hopefully I better get on the phone with him as well and do an interview, and I'd love to talk about his other projects as well.
Oh yeah, you should, very definitely. He's very animated.

Sounds like it. Somebody else told me the same thing.
Oh yeah, yeah. Anybody that's ever worked with him or anybody that's ever known him, he's a larger than life character.

Well I like that. They're a good, fun interview.
Yeah, yeah, he's brilliant, I'm sure. He's just, you know, he's fearless. He'll say anything. Wonderful, I highly recommend you do an interview with him.

What's next for you Danny? Musically, I mean, is anything planned?
No, you know, I mean all I really wanted to do…because the guys… believe it or not the guys who made this record with me are really, really talented. And I'd hoped, and I wouldn't rule it out entirely at this point. My hope was that we'd, that the record would get enough interest that we could go to Europe and play some dates. And perhaps even Japan.

We will definitely keep in contact…
Oh, yeah, I'd love to do that. I'm still looking for an opportunity to do that sometime between now and the end of the year as well. I've talked to some friends from Belgium and obviously Magnus is working on a few things there. But nothing has materialized yet. But all the guys that made the record would love to do it. Depending upon, again scheduling wise and everything else, I could probably even twist Yul's arm and get Yul to come out.

Well OK. That sounds pretty awesome!
Outside of that, and I'd like to do another one. I few could make enough noise with this one and the people at Atenzia, although I don't know how they're fixed financially or anything like that. If they were interested in doing another one or if there was another label that thought perhaps that it made sense to want to do another Diving for Pearls record, I'd do another one. I would actually like to do that.

I hope so. I really hope you do.
Yeah, I hope so too. I got busy there for a while. I owned a music store, and I got married and had some children. Things have sort of normalized a little bit and I find myself with a little bit more time now that I didn't have when my children were very, very young. And I'm sort of interested in doing it, yeah. Before, as I said to a friend of mine the other day, before it becomes ridiculous and pathetic (laughs). You know what I mean? For me to even think about going out on stage and supporting something like this. I'd like to do it.

I think it should be done.
Thank you!

Definitely!
Thanks, I appreciate it.